Big Lie About Agent's MP5 Subgun

They should have gone in during the day.

Plain-clothed officers with holstered weapons. Some riot cops on the scene with the crowd...maybe barricades. The midnight raid makes it seem like we were in the wrong on this one and had to go in 'under cover of darkness' and sneak away with the kid.

The action was just. No need to hide. And the crowd just did not present enough of a tactical situation to justify the firepower/manpower on scene (imho). Go in and ask for the kid nicely. If they resist, escalate the force until the duty is performed, then leave calmly. If the crowd becomes unruly, escalate the force to disperse them as necessary. No more, no less. They're wrong, your right - act like it. To go in like stormtroopers is asking to be called stormtroopers.


- gabe
 
In a raid on a crack house - yes. In this raid - I doubt it saved lives. I don't think you can justify a large heavily armed no-knock raid in every encounter, even if the 'element of surprise saves lives'. So does overwhelming firepower superioirty, but we can't send SWAT teams in for every warrant served. But I understand your point.


- gabe
 
You must all be blind. Don't you all see the big Master lock hanging off of the trigger guard on the MP5?
Janet Reno would never let her Storm Troopers use smart guns, she's afraid that the gun would be smarter than her. And she would be right!
 
Surprise KILLS.Talk to the one killed in midnight no knock raids if you can.Wrong houses,wrong people innocent people trying to defend themselves from BG's in the middle of the night.

------------------
beemerb
We have a criminal jury system which is superior to any in the world;
and its efficiency is only marred by the difficulty of finding twelve men
every day who don't know anything and can't read.
-Mark Twain
 
There appear to be two versions of the " finger off of the trigger " picture floating around. One shows the safety position indicater on " safe " and another shows the safety position indicater on " fire " Either two shots very similar or one shot with doctored version. From what I have seen, the version with the safety on seems to have been enhanced but I have no way of proving that. Big question.

------------------
Sam I am, grn egs n packin

Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
 
If the INS had gone in during the day, the so-called "Human Chain" would have formed up and provoked violence, because they WANTED to look like victims on TV. This hostage rescue was perfectly executed; the SAS and Seal Team Six should take notes.
 
From a strictly tactical standpoint I'd say that they did a pretty good job of getting the boy out. (NOTE - I make no claim as to what they did being right, moral or legal).

But the bottom line is that no one was shot or seriously hurt. They got their target (Elian) and evacuated him fairly fast. All in all that spells success to me.

Rob

RKBA!

------------------
It's amazing what a large group of stupid people can accomplish.
-----------------
 
Siggy, the element of surprise saves lives in COMBAT. This was not, or at least should not have been, combat. The use of weapons in this manner was illegal, immoral, and those who participated and those who ordered or authorized the raid should be held accountable before the law.
 
Siggy, I run point for an entry team, and that 'raid' was a freakin' JOKE! A few agents in jackets, some uniforms outside, and MAYBE a team standing by in a van.....
Tactical teams are NOT suited to every, most, or even many situations. Our use is limited to the most extreme situations where risk is highest. At that point, Elian's family was simply engaged in peacefully defying the law. They had everything to lose and nothing to gain by violently resisting law enforcement. Those federal qwacks played right into the family's hands, almost as if it had been planned that way. Hmmmm.....

------------------
I don't CARE about pretty....I just want dangerous.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by beemerb:
Surprise KILLS.Talk to the one killed in midnight no knock raids if you can.Wrong houses,wrong people innocent people trying to defend themselves from BG's in the middle of the night.

[/quote]
That happened some years ago in Norfolk VA. Wrong house. Young cop, son of high muckie-muck lost to an in-bed citizen who was startled by "intruder". Action begets reaction.

andyb
 
Actually HK offers a integral safety lock-out device for the plastic SEF trigger groups. I've never used this particular group but from what I hear there's a key that can lock the selector on safe when the weapon isn't in use. If this group was used by the agent then technically the weapon did have a lock at the time, it just wasn't activated.

[This message has been edited by Keeper of the Keys (edited May 04, 2000).]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top