Big Knives and Airport Security

X

X-KILL

New member
I had an interesting experience the other day that I thought I should probably pass on to you folks here at TFL.

Some of you may already know this as I'm not quite sure how "New" this info actually is.

I frequent the Memphis International Airport about 4-5 x per month. I always, and I do mean always, have on me my Spyderco full size Tim Wegner Custom knife. Airport security always stops me to inspect the length of the blade because it is so big bad and ugly (we all know that the look of a weapon is what really kills Ha Ha) thats how they act at least.

Well this last time I was detained and in an argument no less with a supervisor and one other security member. It seems that the laws have changed regarding the fact that my knife has serrated edges,(60%)on the Wegner I think.

Anyway, I had to run all the way back to the Jeep and toss the blade before I could go any further. I just about missed my sons departure in the process.

For those of you who carry big knives be extra careful when you visit airports. The blade length is not the only thing they look at now.

[This message has been edited by X-KILL (edited December 30, 1999).]
 
Generally speaking, anything over 3" and blades with any serrations regardless of length will be a show stopper. The length may vary depending on who measures it. I've seen 4" + blades in very expensive custom folders go through with no problem. I've seen 2" copilot serrated knives get stopped. I think the Wenger is kind of cute. Kind of has a happy face look to it. Must have been those mean, nasty teeth. I wonder how those plastic serrated knives make it aboard the plane? Humh. Something else for the Feds to ponder.

[This message has been edited by ak9 (edited December 30, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by ak9 (edited December 30, 1999).]
 
I always toss the knife that resides in my pocket into my bag before I get to the metal detector, then pull it out when I'm out of view of the security people. the blade is 3+" and its half serrated. I've never had a problem

------------------
It ain't mah fault. did I do dat?
 
Took a trip to Orlanda from Denver IA once.
Gerber Guardian back-up in the travel-on & a Victorinox lock-blade folder in the pocket.
V has a bigger blade. "Have a nice flight, etc."

In Orlando, I had to meet my party back down the concourse, so back through security check-point. X-ray chick gets a funny look, calls the Super & they detain me. Having a hissy about the fixed-blade. Showed 'em my ticket, etc. & explained I just "came from there," etc. Was allowed to go - but not back towards the planes. No problem with the folder but they sure did about the smaller fixed-blade.

BTW, I've travelled international a few with a Swiis Army knife that could take the plane apart with all the tools on it - no prob. Go figure.
 
Interesting turn of events in our lifetime. I remember reading many years ago, that the desired effect of a terrorist was to force changes upon another group of people. While there is no doubt that the lives of direct victims lives are changed, it's really the society as a whole they really wish to affect.

Your experiences with the knife/security at the terminal are the direct result of those actions. The painful fact is that you've received their message, probably delivered many, many years ago...

And so, it makes you wonder the impact other acts of aggression, not necessarily in this country, will have on you later.

Nikita Kruschev once said that the US would be destroyed without firing a single shot (from the Communists), that we would destroy ourselves.

Not a very good ending sentiment for this century, or the birth of a new century. We all must look forward with our heads up, eyes and ears open, and always vigilant.

Best Regards,
Don
 
I recently went from Nashville to Oakland by way of L.A. and came back by way of Kansas City. I carried an Emerson CQC7 BT coated, half serrated.

Nashville - from pocket to bowl at the metal detector, back in pocket on the other side. Not a word was said and the security folks didn't raise an eyebrow!

LAX - in and out without going thru security due to plane change only. Still in pocket.

Oakland - did the same as Nashville. They made me take it out of my pocket AFTER I had passed the metal detectors. A security supervisor inspected it and made me put it in my carry-on.

Kansas City - (NEVER GO THERE if you can help it!) I was there for a plane change only but they have security at EACH GATE! Ran the carry-on thru the x-ray. They pulled my bag and held it. Funny thing was I set off the metal detector! My pockets were empty! Went back thru and set it off again! Had to stand there like a scarecrow with a security girl giving me a manual sweep...BEEP (beltbuckle)...BEEP (metal eyelets on shoes!) ASKED TO FRISK MY ANKLES! (hi-top shoes). NOBODY else set the detector off while I watched...hmm. Then I went to get the bag and they did a full inspection, pulled the knife, checked it for length and told me if it was ANY MORE serrated I would NOT have been allowed to board with it.

Mikey
 
Don't remember if it was Bush Intercontinental or Hobby here in Houston, but I had to turn around and leave my KISS 2.5" folder in the car because the 3/4" or so of serrations and the tanto point looked "threatening". A rent-a-cop in Albuquerque actually cut himself "inspecting" it. I saw him running his finger across the blade and said "hey, watch it!" but it was already too late. He sheepishly closed it and started to hand it back, which I accepted with my handkerchief. I found a restroom, washed the blade carefully and poured listerine mouthwash on it. I figured if the guy was actually that stupid, he had to be carrying something. Sheesh!

BTW, I've never had a problem with my Spyderco Delica, which I think looks a lot meaner.
 
This has been discussed at great length in
various knife fora out there.

Anyway, I have Spyderdo smooth edge
Dragonfly that is my plane knife.

It's been inspected across the country
and never stopped.
 
Rich and you other guys who travel frequently will appreciate this if you didn't know it already:

If you want to get your long scary knife through the checkpoint, just follow this procedure:

1. Procure a knife with a clip on one side.
2. Put one or more $100.00 bills under the clip as if it's a money clip.
3. Put the folded knife onto the belt, money-up/knife-down.
4. Pick up your "money clip" on the other side.

You'll get right through, because those employees are trained to never get near touching a passenger's money, and they know the security camera is on them. They will avoid a Ben Franklin like the plague. If they do handle it and disallow the knife, raise bloody hell and accuse them of stealing one of the 100s, if for no other reason than to discourage them from touching it next time.

Disclaimer: Never done it myself, but I know a guy who swears by it.

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited December 30, 1999).]
 
I try to avoid commercial air travel as much as possible, but it was the only way to visit my son in southern Germany...

My Swiss Army knife was in my carry-on bag; it was looked upon with indifference. My pocket knife is a cute little Gerber lock-blade, 1-3/4" blade. Twice, security guards looked at it, started to remonstrate about the horrible locking blade--and then looked a bit sheepish.

Apparently nobody figures a 3" saw blade, and screwdriver blades, aren't really what one wants a hostile person to have around airplanes.

"The most dangerous thing at an airport is a lineboy with a towmotor."

Art
 
I carry a five in butterfly knife to work with me given to me by a leo friend of mine.
I use it mostly to open up packages we get from fedex, ups, etc... Its funny that they are illegal to have, but I can carry a gun? Now think about it what's more dangerous ?
You decide!
 
The next time this happens, would you ask the Airport Security Robot to quote you the relevant Federal Law/Us Code?

I'd like to research it, but when I called the local airport and asked, they put me on hold and never came back. Sigh.

LawDog



------------------
I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help.

Well, buddy, the best thing you could do to help me, is to walk west until your hair floats.
 
I know absolutely zilch about knives. Never carried one and probably never will - sharp things are "dangerous and I could hurt myelf" my momma always said, so I've always gone with things that go bang. But could someone explain to me the airline/FAA bureaucratic thinking that says "3 inch OK, 3 1/2 inch Bad-Bad-Bad" and "straight blade nice, serrated blade No-No-No". Who comes up with this stuff and what possible reasoning behind it.

Seriously, has anybody ever inquired as to their justification of these specific rules? I would really like to see an official explantion of this stupidity.

RKBA!
 
Hi Everyone-

Westex my friend....try it, you'll like it!

Once you get used to having that little folder clipped in your pocket, you'll soon wonder how you ever did without it.

It's kind of like a wristwatch, you'll feel completely "naked" without it.

Besides, knife purchase price can be justified as "reasonable" to family and friends when plotted against the prices we pay for firearms! :)

Everyone have a fun & safe New Year's Eve...

~ Blue Jays ~
 
There have been other threads on this in the past - do a SEARCH to find some... I believe I remember Rich L. had a run in with airport rent'a'saps...
It was a Ugly mess and if I remember rightly - lost a Sabenza in the mix.
For those of you who dont know - a Sabeza is the Rolls Royce of pocket folders.

------------------
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
 
Is it OK to correct a moderator, George :) ?

Sebenza - cheapest I've seen is about
$290. And I thought I was upset when a
$40 knife fell out of the jeep at night
in TX.
 
Glenn,
It may be acceptable to correct a moderator, but only:
1) when (s)he is terribly wrong,
2) it's George, and
3) you don't make a habit of it.

PS. You CAN tell I'm kidding, can't you? :D <--- smiley!!! Yoo hoo! Smiley!!

(Happy New Year Glenn, from Canyon Lake!)
 
My father, who occasionally haunts these halls, taught me as a boy, that a man is pretty much expected to carry a hard tool on him, and a folding knife is one of the most versatile and effective hard tools available. The knife, he explained (I was 7, bear with me...), was a symbol of responsibility. Keep it sharp and clean, keep it safe, and keep it on you. (Last one is the hardest for someone like me, who loses stuff.)

In this light, the airport de-knifings feel a bit more emasculating, don't they?

----
To the ladies here: No chauvenism intended-- this is just a bit of personal wisdom imparted from a man to this man, about manhood.
----

Having a versatile tool in your pocket is having options when presented with a problem. Why would we "all" think it to be in our best interests to deprive the citizenry of that?

L.P.
 
Spyderco made the copilot specifically for airline travel to conform to the various laws nationaly and internationaly(they did not figure on the serration thing being a problem). The FAA guidelines are vague and open to interpretation. The problem is that the local laws come into play when you deal with airport security. That is why local custom and training vary so much. A couple of things to be careful of. A fixed blade is never allowed according FAA regulations. They figure that a fixed blade is weapon because the blade is already deployed and can be used immediately. You were lucky. Folders are ok, because they figure in order to be a threat, you have to reach in your pocket and deploy it with two hands and then it will fold back on your fingers if you try to use it as a weapon. I know what you are thinking about modern locking mechanisms and thumb studs, but these regulations were written before that. Do not rock the boat, please. Autos or switch blades are forbidden under seperate Federal law(bad stuff here. You don't even want to go there!). Now generally speaking, you are dealing with minimum wage workers at these security checkpoints. They have a general set of guidelines and profiles they follow. If you just throw your knife in your carry bag and push it through, you are lucky. Either the machine was broken(why do you think they put screens up so you can't see what they see), it was a placebo machine to make you think they were doing something, or the operator just was bored to death and missed it (a real possibilty). The professional folks who have to overcome the various barriers of security have all switched to titanium folders and fixed blades (a lot of neck knives)or ceramics, plastics, and carbon fiber. SOOOO, that leaves us law abiding and poor folks (or dumb criminals)to get caught. Look like a scuz (even if you do not think you do), act like one, carry a knife and watch the games begin. The $100 bill thing works pretty good on fairly small knives, but I did have a security person ask me to remove the money for him to inspect the knife. Advice. Try to stay at 3" with no serrations. Dress nicely when traveling. Do not draw attention to yourself(watch the adult beverage intake). Go through at a busy time, when they are under stress to move passengers, and give yourself a few minutes to study the various gates before boarding (if you can). In big airports at busy times there are always gates that seem to let everyone through. Placebo or broken machine. If you meet the profile, they might hand wisk you with the "magic wand". If you get caught be courteous, act surprised, be apologetic, and tell them you will be glad to check it through with your carryon bag at the gate if they would like to accompany you there. That got me a ride to the gate on a cart one time. If you get into a pissing contest with the security person and are belligerent and the supervisor gets called in you have already lost for obvious reasons (its a power and contol issue then). Before you get in a hissy, ask for the supervisor immediately and try to move away to the side from the checkpoint with the supervisor, preferably toward the gate and your carryon (if you have one)so he has to strain a little to keep track of the other gates (and so the security guard won't lose face when he lets you go). Remeber the issue is rarely security in these situations- it is power! Do you want get on the airplane, or do want to make a point(no pun intended). Obviously, if you are talking about a $200 + knife being confiscated, then it might be worth missing the plane. Pick and choose your battles and battlefields carefully. Is the victory worth the price? Avoid Great Britain(any airport), K.C., and Houston Hobby(if you are in a hurry. Same problem as K.C., but they are much nicer. They just want to get to know you and play with your expensive folder, before they let you through). Leathermen (or the type) work good because many flight engineers and pilots carry them. I guess the blade with all those other tools makes it ok.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top