Big Brothers Nose is getting larger....and into more places

You discount only the news reports that you choose to discount while referencing others, such as the Chicago Sun Times, to make your point. Remember posting this link a couple of replies back: http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn...-steyn051.html
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Au contraire, mon frere....I used old Markys article with the context of a "could it be" postulation...:)

I learned from the feet of a master criminal lawyer years ago: Believe half of what you see, and nothing of what you hear.

WildandididntbelievethateitherAlaska


PS:

Could it be possible that certain Bureaucrats AND certain businesses are BOTH using Patriot to trample individual rights? I think so.
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Never truer words were spoken...
 
And never ask a question you don't already know the answer to. What was the example they always used?

q: Did you actually see the accused bite the plaintiff's ear off?

a: No.

q: Then why did you just state that he did?

a: Because I saw him spit it out.
 
Truthfully, I haven't found BB intruding on anything that bothers me, either.

Yet.

Also, note that "haven't found" is sort of an important part of that statement.

On the day that our politics change and become not-so-gun-friendly, and your gun or guns are confiscated using information BB has obtained using transaction reporting laws, you will find what you haven't.
 
So now they're not just watching payments, they're interfering and putting a hold on payments for security clearance?
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Publius-
I suspect that is going on but was probably not the case with the Soehnges. Their money was probably tied up by the CC company policies.

However, those Policies are required by PATRIOT; and the requirements in PATRIOT appear to be pretty nebulous, much like the qualifications for getting on the No-Fly List or having your phone tapped. ;) So, ultimately, the cause is .gov thru PATRIOT.

I'm old enough that I remember a time when .gov thought it's job was to ensure that companies treated people fairly, not to encourage them to screw the little guy. Unintended consequences.
Rich
 
Debit Visa/MC cards have caused me to cut up my credit cards several years ago. Glad to be out from under their regulations and policies.:)

This is a good reason for others to do the same.
 
Rich, your response brings to mind Ken's previous post:

Could it be that Homeland Security is just a convenient excuse for business to act like jerks?
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They wanted me to pay to get the article Ken posted from the Chicago Sun Times archive. Not much chance of that. ;)
 
Difference in nuance between Ken's comment and mine.
He suggests that business is using PATRIOT to gouge customers. I've provided passages that would indicate the the businesses are not yet certain of their obligations under PATRIOT....therefore, many will take a very conservative route; no business can afford to tangle with the Justice Dept.

Ken suggests the businesses are at fault; I suggest, if not for PATRIOT, the act of holding someone's payment in limbo within the banking industry would be cause for civil, if not criminal, action.
Rich
 
Wild, you wanted hard information - there is more than enough at the Federal Financial Institutions Examination Council Bank Secrecy Act/Anti-Money Laundering Infobase webpage to keep you busy.==========

For those who don't want to devote a chunk of their life to understanding the arcane nuances of BSA/AML, here's my take on the guy's credit card payment:
  • The payment did not run afoul of a specific reporting trigger in the Bank Secrecy Act or PATRIOT Act.
  • No statute or federal regulation required the specific payment to be reported to, or reviewed and approved by, Homeland Security.
  • The payment was flagged by the conservative parameters of the credit card company's own AML monitoring program (which is required by regulation).
  • The credit card company blamed Homeland Secuity while the credit card company figured out what to do with the flagged payment.
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Or, to put it another way, Rich is right:
businesses are not yet certain of their obligations under PATRIOT....therefore, many will take a very conservative route; no business can afford to tangle with the Justice Dept.
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With DOJ assessing multi-million dollar fines for noncompliance, businesses tend to be careful.
 
spy for me

Government: Our rules and regulations are unclear about what private businesses must report.

Private Business: Government rules are unclear, so report everything.

Citizen: I am at the mercy of government lawyers and corporate lawyers, except for the lawyer I can afford, and I hate going to his trailer for dispositions!
 
Ken suggests the businesses are at fault; I suggest, if not for PATRIOT, the act of holding someone's payment in limbo within the banking industry would be cause for civil, if not criminal, action.
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What a great class action lawsuit that would be!


WildwillgettotherestlaterAlaska
 
Hell, you think thats bad try paying cash for a car or house. The sellers are REQUIRED to report it to the Feds. Same with any cash purchase as I understand it over 10 thou.....Anybody remember the made for TV movie i think it was called Americka? No I told a lie, it was "Shadow On The Land". About twenty or so years ago. I was on once and I have never saw it again. Ugly predictions...
 
If I make a payment on whatever with cash/playdoh or bottle tops, and they decide to put it in limbo, fine-give it back. You won't see it or me darken your doorway again.
 
I was sick Sunday and still a little so Monday, so I took a sick day to recover. I wasn't so sick that I couldn't go a few blocks to the bank to get a little unfinished business done.

While there, I asked my banker what would happen if I wanted to, say, pay off my house or make a huge payment (over $10k). I specifically asked if there would be any problems or holds due to Homeland Security. She said if I did a wire transfer there would be no problem at all.

Don't take this as my endorsement of the Patriot Act. I'm a big believer in privacy unless there's probable cause, and there better be SAF other than "he said you ....".
 
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