Biden's Proposed Gun Control Measures

A couple of points to consider, first about "ghost guns". Ok, so various agencies are reporting more and more of them showing up in crimes (or more often, seized at crime scenes). If those guns are not being seized from their original owners/makers, then various existing Federal laws have already been broken. Anyone who is making guns and selling them WITHOUT following federal law (which means having the required licenses) is already breaking multiple laws.

I'm interested in any kind of stats/breakdowns on this. I would have expected if this were a growing problem we would be seeing in-depth investigations and endless editorials about their growing use in crime. But I haven't seen anything like that.

Ergo: my conclusion is that this a miniscule to non-existent problem.
 
Ergo: my conclusion is that this a miniscule to non-existent problem.

That's irrelevant to the gun grabbers , need not look any further then "assault rifles" and trying to ban them . Long guns /rifles represent a miniscule amount of all deaths/murders by people using guns each year .

This is from several years ago but I suspect the percentages are still similar today
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Note I said long guns/rifles , break that down to assault rifles and its infinitesimal and yet they are the great satin of firearms and must be banned .
 
Hmm you guys must have missed it . No Biden didn't say it , the federal government will give out incentives for states to do it for them . Like tax brakes , grants and who knows what else .

Or withholding highway funds and other largesse which the feds return to the states for various "reasons". States which tend to have tight gun control laws will comply. States with more loosely defined gun control laws may not.
 
Further, I had to chuckle when Biden said "AFT".

Three times, no less. The thing is, there were dozens of people Biden could have nominated. He chose THIS guy? Chipman is on the advisory board of a gun-control group, and he's been very vocal about his support for it. There's no way he can come off as unbiased.

Hopefully, his Senate hearings will bring all this to light. If you want to read some of his opinions from the horse's mouth, here's a community interview he did on Reddit.
 
I fully disagree , because there are many people that are selling "ghost" guns that would not if they were registered in there name . The ease of selling them is the fact you can mil it out and sell it and NOBODY knows you did that . People are more willing to break the law if they know they have very little chance of getting caught . Not only will it effect things in that way , the government will now have a place to start back tracking where the "ghost" gun came from .

I disagree with your disagreement! :D

Sort of.

I've been thinking about the statement a bit, and here's where I see the flaws,

The people making and selling ghost guns, right now, ARE breaking the law, IF they are not giving them a serial # and registering them with the Fed at the time of sale. SO, the people already breaking the law are going to be stopped by another law??? I'm doubtful of that.

"mill it out and sell it and nobody will know" yep, also a violation of existing law. How is any change/new law going to change that?

Are they going to require ser# and registration of receiver blanks? Remember that 80% blank is not a firearm UNTIL its finished (beyond the 80% limit at least). SO are we going to require firearms registration for things that are not firearms? What is the legal authority for this?? WHO gets to decide what they are? The ATF?? CONGRESS??? THe Pres via executive order???

My point is, the people who are supposedly making ghost guns and supplying them to criminals are breaking multiple laws, and they KNOW they are. No new or change to the existing law will stop them, Arresting and convicting them will stop them, for a while, anyway.

You could really slow down the current ghost gun supply simply by outlawing the sale of AR lowers... but unfinished ones aren't guns, so where's the justification for doing that, and putting several thousand innocent people out of work in the process? I don't see that, anywhere, and I shudder to see the day it appears.
 
Off topic,but relevant.
A bi-partisan commision has been formed in the name of restructuring SCOTUS.

Do we have a "combined arms" approach to assaulting the RTKBA?

POTUS check

BATF regulatory and bureacracy....pending

Congress majority check

SCOTUS pending

media,social,and news check (including empasis on crime,de-emphasis of armed citizen)

Tech and other large capitalist influences,banks,retail chains, e-bay,etc check

What the NRA has been doing vs what they should be doing check.

Public school indoctrination and decline of youth participation in shooting sports. Includes trashing the Constitution


Positives? A lot of new gun owners.

Action items?

Take new gun owners and kids shooting

Replace NRA leadership

Fight to preserve SCOTUS

Take Senate and/or Hose majority 2022
 
How do you ban lower receivers? Isn’t that banning AR15 since that is the legal firearm.

I am not sure how you ban non firearms either.


I am also worried about AR pistols. I guess allowing them to be NFA items and giving free tax stamps would suck less —- they have to grandfather in existing ones right?
 
These "Executive Directives" are not orders or laws. They are worth less than the paper they are printed on. What is concerning, what's coming down the road. This is only the beginning of a bad moon rising.
 
What I see as a possible remedy would be yes all 80% are serialized and documentation Hass to be filled out and kept for all that are sold . No background check is needed but you still fill out the same type of paperwork . Basically everything a gun manufacturer distributor and gun store has to do to sell a firearm except nobody hast to do a background check . This will allow them to trace the history from the manufacture of the 80% to the first owner .
 
Metal god said:
What I see as a possible remedy would be yes all 80% are serialized and documentation Hass to be filled out and kept for all that are sold . No background check is needed but you still fill out the same type of paperwork . Basically everything a gun manufacturer distributor and gun store has to do to sell a firearm except nobody hast to do a background check . This will allow them to trace the history from the manufacture of the 80% to the first owner .
As usual, the crux of the matter will be in the language of any new regulation they enact, or new interpretation issued to change the enforcement of existing law and regulations.

What is an "80% receiver"? It's an arbitrary determination that the manufacturer can finish it THIIIIS far without it's becoming a firearm. Drill one more hole or make one more cut, and it's a firearm. But it's an arbitrary call. Who can say with any amount of exactitude that this receiver still requires 20% of the work to be done, but that one over there only needs 18%? I've seen ads for 60% 1911 receivers. If "80%" receivers are going to henceforth be considered "ghost guns" and subject to serial numbering, background checks, and sale through FFLs (even though, by definition, they are still NOT firearms) ... what about 60% receivers? What about 40% receivers? What about the cast-your-own polymer AR-15 lowers?

I don't know if they have any left but Sarco used to sell leftover raw frame castings for Para-Ordnance 1911s. They weren't ingots, they were castings, and they looked about as much like a gun as that cookie the kid got banned from school for chewing into the profile of a gun, but the [very] rough outline is there. Would those be considered to be ghost guns?

[Edit to add] Yes, Sarco still has Para castings. These aren't 80% receivers, they aren't 60% receivers, these are raw castings. Are thet "ghost guns"?

https://www.sarcoinc.com/1911-frame-casting-1911-p14-wide-body-steel-double-action-frame-casting/

We don't know. We'll have to wait to find out.
 
It occurs to me that Cabot Gun Company made a 1911 out of a meteorite. Depending on how a new regulation might be worded (or an existing regulation interpreted) ...

Is this going to be classified as a "ghost gun"?

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[Image in the public domain]
 
What I see as a possible remedy would be yes all 80% are serialized and documentation Hass to be filled out and kept for all that are sold ...

I'm sure some will propose something like that, though I do wonder why you include all the legal requirements for purchasing a firearm, and leave out the background check?

I have issues with treating anything as something it is NOT. If it is a firearm, fine, its a firearm, but if its NOT a firearm, what justification (other than the tyranny of pandering to a political group being forced on all of us) can there be for treating it as a firearm?

IF/WHEN it becomes one, then it is one, until then, its not, and in my opinion should be left the hell alone, as far as firearms laws are concerned.

What else, if anything, in our modern world is treated that way? I see this as constructive possession writ LARGE, at the very least.

Too many people seem to have become obsessed with what MIGHT happen, and want "laws" to prevent what literally does not yet exist. Why is it that when people who can be identified as belonging to a specific group, be it political, religious, or even racial, commit crimes we are constantly told that the group should not be held responsible or accountable, or punished, and yet if that group happens to be people who own guns, then we are all tarred by the same brush and held accountable for the acts of deranged individuals simply because the only thing we have in common with them is that we own guns??

There is nothing in this world that I can think of that cannot be misused to cause harm to others, including language. Are we now doomed to an existence where our individual lives and property are legally dominated by the fear of what others might do with theirs?

Where does the 80% rule currently in use end up? If I'm selling 80% finished lowers and a new rule makes them the same as an actual firearm, I'm going to be really tempted to sell 75% finished lowers. They can reset the legal limit, and I can offer another product that complies, on and on until the limit becomes 0%. Is that what we want? is that something we can afford to accept???

because things have to be treated equally under the law, or so we've been told our entire lives. Of course, we've also been told we are innocent until proven guilty, and as we've seen for many years now, gun owners are not being treated that way....

Inanimate objects (aka "things") are not evil. Nor are they good, they are neither, without the hand of man. Aren't we past the point where things are blamed for the acts of men? (apparently not yet..:rolleyes:) but shouldn't we be???
 
No one wants to say the real reason for gun control. It is about Power. So does anyone think for a second that Ghost gun are used in Places like just this ONE section of Chicago? Now take similar cities all across the US. And Chicago is chock full of gun laws. Lol, these shooting are NOT from law abiding Citizens that go through the normal standard gun purchase laws. Gun laws are a joke to them.

https://heyjackass.com/category/2020/
2020 Totals (vs 2019)
Shot & Killed: 719 (+55%)
Shot & Wounded: 3455(+51%)
Total Shot: 4174 (+52%)
Total Homicides: 792 (+53%
 
44 AMP said:
Where does the 80% rule currently in use end up? If I'm selling 80% finished lowers and a new rule makes them the same as an actual firearm, I'm going to be really tempted to sell 75% finished lowers. They can reset the legal limit, and I can offer another product that complies, on and on until the limit becomes 0%. Is that what we want? is that something we can afford to accept???
I agree. That's the point I was trying to make in posts #30 and 31. Once we allow them to define non-firearms of some arbitrary percentage of incompletion as firearms, we are on that proverbial slippery slope. Where will it end? Will we reach a point at which possession of a block of steel and a milling machine is construed by the BATFE as "constructive possession" of a firearm?
 
This may be a distinction without a difference but they don’t have to call 80% or what ever percentage a firearm . They just need to regulate or restrict it’s sale . I’m having a hard time off the top of my head but there must be all kinds of items the government has restrictions of sale on that are not firearms . Likely not apples to apples but meds are highly controlled . I’m sure there’s a clever way to add restrictions to a none firearm item . Heck it might even be easier because they are not firearms , in fact that might be how they should attack it .
 
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If they require all the same paperwork then they are pointless. The whole point of them is to avoid them being traceable. Not from law enforcement for crime searched but so the government can’t track it down to take it.

That gets into would be just turn them in if made illegal. That has been discussed a million times here though.
 
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With data like this, why go after rifles?

Consider the threat to a real important wealthy person surrounded by security carrying PCC SBR’s under a suit jacket wearing body armor.

Handguns while relevant in crime, don’t represent much threat to VIP’s relatively speaking. Rifles do.....to the point that people who regularly make decisions to ruin people’s lives financially by shifting jobs away from a location, closing factories, lower healthcare coverage, creating plans to fire employees as a cost cutting measure,etc....they are pushing Joe’s buttons.
 
Likely not apples to apples but meds are highly controlled .

Yes, they are. However, medicines are finished products. We made asprin in high school chemistry class. The raw materials are not controlled the way medicines are.

Virtually every household in the nation contains materials that, if put together in just the right way, could make explosives. Yet these products are sold off the shelf in every grocery store without any restrictions, background checks, license requirements etc at all.

It should not be about what some inanimate object is, or isn't, it should only be about what people DO with it.

Unfortunately, too many people in authority think otherwise, and have for way too long. The line of thinking that things are evil dates back to at least the Middle Ages, where something that caused harm was "possesed by Satan" and therefore evil. Said something was also almost invariably surrendered to the Crown or the Church's local agents, "for public good" which went a long way to bolstering the power and profit of those groups at the expense of the people who's property was being taken.

Note how many things done today still follow that basic principle...
 
I’ll bet if you asked one of us and a liberal, you would get 2 polar opposite meaning for this phrase. A liberal believes this means stop the practice of ordering AR15 parts kits online and stop building mass quantities of untraceable ghost guns that must be the cause of all these shootings.

We hear, change the 80% rule to something like 75% rule with no impact to AR15 building, except as related to using 80% lowers as a starting point which is relatively rare case anyways.
Not only that but the news media is (ignorantly or intentionally?) confusing the issue.

A friend of mine just asked me about a news piece she watched this week. She's a gun owner, but not up on the technical stuff and was legitimately confused. From her description, the news talked about "Ghost Guns" but showed a demonstration of someone attaching an AR15 upper to a lower and clicking the two pins. She asked me "It's not quite that simple is it?". Obviously, they completely glossed over (ignored) the part about the lower needing drilling, threading, other machining as well as the special tools required to do so. They didn't even show the installation of the internal trigger parts. (I actually suspect they were using a standard serialized commercial manufactured and fully assembled lower that was purchased through an FFL)
 
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