Better bear defense. 40 S&W or 357mag?

Last edited:
I have carried UDAP in Yellowstone a few years ago and I agree that it's a viable means of self defense.

The problem with these discussions is that we don't have a lot of cases to study where people used bear spray or handguns to defend themselves against bears.

There were two people killed in Yellowstone this year (one just happened) from bears, one person killed in the Olympic National Park from a mountain goat last year and 1 or 2 people killed in the Gallatin Forest last year from a bear. None of them had bear spray or guns. So, what do we learn from these cases? Nothing.

The only case I know of is the one in Alaska where the guy was charged by an old, starving brown bear and he pulled out his Ruger Alaskan and started blasting away. If I recall correctly, he got off three shots before the revolver jammed because the bullets jumped crimp. The third shot stopped the bear.
 
Consider picking ...

... whichever weapon is loudest.

Shot placement, bullet weight composition etc is all great, but presumably you'd be shooting at a moving target - moving toward you.

Even if the bear winds up dead, you'd probably wind up rather badly hurt (insert multiple exclamation points and upside down smileys).

This is a case where I'd value trying to Scare the Bear,
  • since winning the fight,
  • while better than losing losing the fight,
  • would probably not be as good as -- a Forfit.
.
 
I think this resolves the caliber debate - the misses with the .357 were totally ineffectual.

If he would have missed using a larger caliber things would have been different.

FBI testing showed misses with a .45 to be between .001% and .0015% more effective than misses with the .357 magnum.

The .45 also shows up as a better round to miss with in Greg Ellifritz's studies.
 
To stay on topic the .357mag boasts higher numbers. A heavy 158 or 180 grain JSP, preferably one of the hotter loads from a place like Buffalo Bore would be your best bet.

However, from those who've actually "been there, done that" a good bear/pepper spray trumps both your .40 and the .357 for bear defense. It'd wouldn't hurt to carry both the gun and the spray, always hedge your bets when great bodily harm is on the line.

John
 
Last edited:
"bear spray"

I hike a lot and wouldn't dare hike in grizzly country without bear spray, and also a 9mm for bad 2 legged critters. People who live there say unless you make a 'kill' shot you will just **** off the bear more. If a bear is charging it is not very likely you will hit something vital. I have been confronted by the lowly black bear twice, and my fear and nerves were very had to control.
 
There is more to bear defense than simply having a gun. Travel in groups of 4 or more is one of the best defenses. Avoid low visibility trails where most attacks occur. Consider BOTH pepper spray and lethal weapons capable of stopping a charging bear. Black bears especially are less susceptible to pepper spray and may keep coming back making a lethal defense option part of the bear defense system.

I have a Ruger SRH in .44 magnum that I bought a few months back and a Marlin .444 that throws 335 gr bullets from Buffalo Bore 2000 ft per second. That is very close to many of the .450 and 45-70 moderate loads. With Skinner peep sights, I just dialed in my 100 yard targets yesterday with a group of my friends sighting in our rifles for hunting. I can unsling the rifle just about as quick as taking my .44 magnum out of a cross carry holster. If I am really worried about bear, that will be over my shoulder taking all of the other precautions as well with a Ruger SRH .44 magnum for back up gun as well as my always carry SP101 in my pocket with .357 as a last resort.

Being bear aware is a whole lot more involved than just getting the right weapon. I would not consider .40 cal an adequate weapon for bears. Many consider it small for two legged defense let alone heavy and dangerous bears. .357 with high powered hard cast bullets 180-200 grs is a very minimal starting point when it comes to bears. I use Buffalo Bore 180 gr high powered bullets in my back up, back up gun.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=100

I also have a Marlin 1894c in .357 that shoots these 180 gr bullets at nearly 1900 ft/sec making it an acceptable camp gun, but I prefer my .444 to really get the job done and I am also going to pick up a Marlin .44 magnum to be used in conjunction with my Ruger SRH shooting the same ammo. That can get a 300 gr bullet traveling at 1800 ft/sec which also puts it in moderate 45-70 territory as well.

All of these rifles and guns are within my comfort zone of recoil so they don't really bother me from that perspective. Carry the most powerful weapon you can comfortably shoot, keep your bear spray handy, camp safely with removal of food items and trash from sleeping areas and travel in groups with like minded people ready to encounter bears if needed. I suspect if you do all of those things, you will likely never encounter a bear or very rarely in the first place.
 
Ummm not so sure about the .40, had a black bear invade a house here in WA a year or so ago, home owner shot it once with a .40 S&W (JHP 180 grain as I recall) on the stairs...DRT. Still a good .44 with JSP fast loads are IMHO good for all evil doers from squirrel up and including black bear. Griz? Burrr, another story! As Griz scat has been confirmed in the high cascades mountains up north in my state!!
 
Just read that article about the bear attack on the geologist. All I know is if I was on the ground getting mauled by a bear I would jam the gun wherever I could in that bear, preferably the face, and unload. Easier said than done but I dont think I could curl up in a a ball and hope for the best.
 
Last edited:
Today, 04:24 PM #31
Dragline45
Senior Member

Join Date: November 30, 2010
Posts: 143
Just read that article about the bear attack on the geologist. All I know is if I was on the ground getting mauled by a bear I would jam the gun wherever I could in that bear, preferably the face, and unload. Easier said than down but I dont think I could curl up in a a ball and hope for the best.
Click to expand...

+1, I agree that I will go down fighting if ever presented with such a terrible situation. Best way is to have a buddy system at a minimum in bear country.
 
Yea, I would try and get the bear to chew my left arm 1st :eek: (a Horrible thought) and I would stick my 357 under its chin and pull the trigger until it stopped hopefully. I honestly would even care if I shot through my arm I need to get the bear. Being eating alive is the WORST death imaginable in my opinion, I rather burn.
 
Last edited:
I would carry my 12ga if I didn't think I'd have the cops swarming on me any time I went anywhere. Michigan insisted the damn thing was a pistol, I should carry it as one.
 
Well, last Fri we were on the train north of Talkeetna, and a sow grizz with two cubs charged the train ,not just once but a series of charges, that covered almost a half mile , as she pushed the cubs ahead she turned to charge and take swipes at the train.So bring enough gun!
Alex
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top