Best value pocket pistol

In my opinion, the best gun for the money is a the Ruger LCP. Mine has been 100% reliable so far. I'll admit that mine is currently at Ruger for the recall, but I've had zero issues with it.

I have no doubt that in 10 years from now, the LCP will be the same place it usually is, in my left from pocket.

Oh yeah - I don't consider snub nose revolvers pocket guns, but its hard to beat a S&W or even the Ruger SP.
 
LightningJoe:
Hee hee. That's a new one.
Click to expand...

Bill DeShivs:
Yeah-we wanna hear about them exploding K/Ts and Ruger superiority!
PLEASE!
Click to expand...
I doubt that rifle blew up because of a manufacturing defect. More likely a double charged cartridge.
Click to expand...

Wuchak:
Please elaborate in what ways the design of the LCP is far superior to the KT. Please also elaborate on some specific KT's you have seen blow apart. I am not familiar with a problem of KT's exploding.
Click to expand...


This is directly (copied and pasted) from Kel-Tec's website :
(http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/faq.htm)
Q : What is the expected life of a Kel-Tec firearm
A : All Kel-Tec firearms have an expected life of 6,000 rounds or more.
Click to expand...

I think Ruger has a better guarentee than that:eek:

Also, this is directley (copied and pasted) from the P3AT instruction manual:

A break-in period may be required (50-100 rounds). During this break-in period, some failure to feed and failure to eject or extractmalfunctions may occur. Some of the more common types of malfunctions which may
occur are as follows:

Misfire: Failure of the cartridge to ignite when the hammer falls. Keep the firearm
pointed in a safe direction, wait 30 seconds, operate the slide manually and continue
shooting.

Failure to Feed: This occurs when a cartridge has been fed from a magazine but not fully
chambered. If this occurs, keep the firearm pointed in a safe direction, remove that
cartridge, operate the slide manually and continue shooting. If necessary change the
magazine. The most common causes are dirt or foreign objects impeding the magazine
follower. Improperly crimped cartridges are another cause.

Failure to eject or extract: A fired case is not fully extracted from the chamber or
ejected from the pistol. Again, keep the firearm pointed in a safe direction, clear the
gun by operating the slide, remove the case and continue. If necessary change the
magazine. The most common causes are a damaged extractor, ejector or ammunition.
Improperly loaded or sized cartridges can cause this also. If any of the above
problems are not solved by cleaning or by use of other brands of ammunition, stop
firing, unload and return the pistol to our service department.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen that from Ruger, or anywhere else for that matter.

and finally, also a direct quote from Kel-Tec's website:
Q : What kind of warranty does Kel-Tec provide?
A : The exact warranty terms and conditions can be found in the back of the instruction manual that came with your Kel-Tec product. It usually covers defects in material and workmanship for the lifetime of the product and for the ORIGINAL OWNER only. Only Kel-Tec manufactured products are covered by this warranty, for exact details please consult your manual or download a copy here.
Click to expand...

The lifetime warranty is good, but to the ORIGINAL OWNER ONLY??? :eek: If they stood behind their product unconditionally like Ruger & Smith&Wesson (that I know of) and probably Glock, Sig, Springfield, Kimber, etc., If the weapon bears their name, THEY STAND BEHIND IT! ;)

I think I will stick with my Ruger LCP :D
 
Keltec says the gun should go over 6000 rounds. What does Ruger say? Nothing, because they know that maybe a few dozen will be shot more than 2000 rounds.
Of course K/T's warranty says "original owner," but send them a used gun and they will fix it free!
Any new gun should be fired a couple of hundred rounds to seat everything in. Keltec simply points this out.
So, what are you trying to say?
 
Mauser 1914

For a long time I carried a 1914 Mauser (.32). A great little gun that was superseded by a Polish P64 in 9X18 (heavier but way more powerful). Recently I purchased a used P3AT. I was really surprised by the accuracy of the Keltec and by the customer service offered by their factory when I lost the extractor.:(
 
Astounding! On a thread about pocket guns, there have been just two references to an S&W snubby. The Airweight and Airlite lines are the epitome of pocket handguns. In a pocket holster, in a pair of trousers not meant to display every part of your anatomy in detail, an Airweight snubby is invisible. And it is so light, it can quickly be forgotten. And it will shoot +p .38sp loads that will penetrate 12" of ballistic gello while expanding to almost 0.6" (Remington +p 158gr LSWCHP, and others almost as good. www.brassfetcher.com). I know of no .32/.380 load that will do anything like that.

Cordially, Jack
 
+1 for Keltec

My daily carry is a P3AT, one of 4 KTs I currently own.
The LCP is a pretty blatant copy of the P3AT. The one functional area where they departed the original design resulted in one of the recalls. I admit it's prettier. I own several Rugers, and they are fine guns.
But I have the original design in my pocket, so I see no need to spend a $100 premium for a copy - and an imperfect copy at that.

Keltec warranty is legendary. I haven't needed it but once after 9 KT guns in 4 years. That was a faulty extractor on an SU16 I had traded for, used. New improved design extractor was in my mailbox 2 days later, no questions, no charge.
 
btolliverjr said:
This is directly (copied and pasted) from Kel-Tec's website :
(http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/faq.htm)
Quote:
Q : What is the expected life of a Kel-Tec firearm
A : All Kel-Tec firearms have an expected life of 6,000 rounds or more.
I think Ruger has a better guarentee than that

Also, this is directley (copied and pasted) from the P3AT instruction manual:

Quote:
A break-in period may be required (50-100 rounds). During this break-in period, some failure to feed and failure to eject or extractmalfunctions may occur. Some of the more common types of malfunctions which may
occur are as follows:

Misfire: Failure of the cartridge to ignite when the hammer falls. Keep the firearm
pointed in a safe direction, wait 30 seconds, operate the slide manually and continue
shooting.

Failure to Feed: This occurs when a cartridge has been fed from a magazine but not fully
chambered. If this occurs, keep the firearm pointed in a safe direction, remove that
cartridge, operate the slide manually and continue shooting. If necessary change the
magazine. The most common causes are dirt or foreign objects impeding the magazine
follower. Improperly crimped cartridges are another cause.

Failure to eject or extract: A fired case is not fully extracted from the chamber or
ejected from the pistol. Again, keep the firearm pointed in a safe direction, clear the
gun by operating the slide, remove the case and continue. If necessary change the
magazine. The most common causes are a damaged extractor, ejector or ammunition.
Improperly loaded or sized cartridges can cause this also. If any of the above
problems are not solved by cleaning or by use of other brands of ammunition, stop
firing, unload and return the pistol to our service department.
I haven't seen that from Ruger, or anywhere else for that matter.

and finally, also a direct quote from Kel-Tec's website:
Quote:
Q : What kind of warranty does Kel-Tec provide?
A : The exact warranty terms and conditions can be found in the back of the instruction manual that came with your Kel-Tec product. It usually covers defects in material and workmanship for the lifetime of the product and for the ORIGINAL OWNER only. Only Kel-Tec manufactured products are covered by this warranty, for exact details please consult your manual or download a copy here.
The lifetime warranty is good, but to the ORIGINAL OWNER ONLY??? If they stood behind their product unconditionally like Ruger & Smith&Wesson (that I know of) and probably Glock, Sig, Springfield, Kimber, etc., If the weapon bears their name, THEY STAND BEHIND IT!

I think I will stick with my Ruger LCP
Click to expand...

Ok. We went from me asking for specific examples of the the many Kel-tecs you have seen exploded. The one you cited was a rifle. We are discussing their handguns and there is not indication what the true cause of the rifle failure was.

Ruger doesn't have any formal warranty. According to them: The Magnuson-Moss Act (Public Law 93-637) does not require any seller or manufacturer of a consumer product to give a written warranty. It does provide that if a written warranty is given, it must be designated as "limited" or as "full" and sets minimum standards for a full warranty. Sturm,Ruger & Company, Inc. has elected not to provide any written warranty, either "limited" or "full, rather than to attempt to comply with the provisions of the Magnuson - Moss Act and the regulation issued thereunder. There are certain implied warranties under state law with respect to sales of comsumer goods.As the extent and interpretation of these implied warranties varies from state to state, you should refer to your state statutes. Sturm, Ruger and Company wishes to assure its customers of it's continued interest in providing service to owners of Ruger firearms.

This means that other than what is provided by your State's consumer protection laws you have no legal expectation of a warranty from Ruger for any period for any firearm. They might continue to provide the service they do but they are in no way legally obligated to do so when times get tight and the economy goes bad. Kel-Tec's written warranty is to the original purchaser but they are well known for not enforcing that. They have some of the best customer service I have ever dealt with for any product.

Kel-tec is not the only company that will tell you their semi-auto handgun needs time to break in. Kahr recommends a 200 round break in period for their guns, which cost more than 2x what a KT does. Kimber's manual says a 500 :eek: round break in period is required. That's 500 rounds of 45 acp at today's prices to break in a $1000+ handgun! The LCP needs a break in too, Ruger just doesn't give a round count. I think it's crazy that they all need one and we accept it. Imagine buying a new Harley and having them tell you that for the first 500 miles breakdowns should be expected and are normal. Kimber uses a line of BS that their guns are built to such tight tolerances the break in period is necessary. Intel's CPU's are built to a tolerance and precision level that Kimber cannot begin to fathom yet when you buy a new computer you don't get a note telling you that CPU crashes for the first 500 days are completely normal as the chip wears in. Those tight tolerances you know.

I really like the LCP and the P-3AT. If I were buying one today I would pick the LCP. However my P-3AT is 100% reliable and Armalaser equipped so I would not trade it for an LCP. I can say that there is one design change that was made to the LCP vs. the P-3AT that does provide a real advantage over a reported problem in the KT's. That is the trigger bar on the LCP installs from the top so it cannot fall out the bottom and lock up the trigger. On the KT it inserts from the bottom and it has been reported to back out on it's own. A little loctite and you never have to worry though. Plus the LCP looks better. It captured some of that Walther PPK magic.
 
But I have the original design in my pocket, so I see no need to spend a $100 premium for a copy - and an imperfect copy at that.
Click to expand...

I love how everybody thinks the LCP is a lesser of a gun because Ruger had a recall. Seriously, can anyone provide evidence fo the LCP actually malfunctioning??? I haven't seen it, and as long as you don't go throwing your guns on the ground, no problem;)
 
Sorry but I have never known anyone who shoots 167 rounds per week (~667 rounds per month) week in and week out through their carry gun. 6000 rounds is more than most people will shoot a P-3AT in 20 years and they would have to shoot 25 rounds a month through it to hit it then.
 
Wuchak: Do you not expect great quality and life out of a gun :confused: I would not except that personally. It is not at all out of the question (probably on the low side of actuality) to figure that someone would shoot 50 rounds per month. That is 600 rounds per year. At that rate, the gun would only last for 10 years! :eek: I usually by WWB 100 round value packs, so if a person was to shoot 100/month instead of 50/month, that is only 5 years of life. :eek: Sorry, but I expect my guns to last me at least my lifetime and most likely more.
 
I've owned a KelTec P3AT, PF9, Kahr MK9 and Kahr PM9.

The Kahrs performed perfectly after about a 100 round break-in. The P3AT was dependable after about 50 rounds. The PF9 never had even a hiccup from the start.

The P3AT was, for me, a true pocket pistol. It just vanished in a front or back pocket in a Nemesis pocket holster. I am not, however, thrilled with the 380 round. The PF9 printed ever so slightly in my front pocket, and just stuck out a touch in a back pocket. It was barely a tad too big to be a real back pocket pistol in the pants I wear. But only a tad. It could serve well as a front pocket carry.

The Kahr MK9 works well in my front pockets, but the grip sticks up a bit above the top of my back pocket. As an all metal pistol, it feels like a compact piece of lead in my pocket. Now, that is not bad and it really isn't all that heavy at about 25 oz. The extra weight makes is a pleasure to shoot. It shoots better than any gun that size should. Although I carry the PM9, the MK9 is such a fine shooter I can't bring myself to part with it.

The PM9 is close to the perfect small carry gun. It is light, at 17 oz, yet it shoots comfortably. After break-in, I have not had a single problem with dependability. I am not as accurate with the PM9 as I am with the MK9, but the difference is slight.

As mentioned, the KelTecs are inexpensive compared to the Kahrs. I just can't get as excited about the KelTecs like I can about the Kahrs, but that is more of an emotional reaction than a rational one. For the money, KelTec simply can't be beat. The Kahrs are more attractive (to me) and are of finer finish, but you pay for that quality.

Ron
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top