Best type of home defense shells?

12ga defense/skill training...

As I've posted before in other forum topics, I'm not a huge fan of shotguns or patrol rifles as defense weapons-home protection.
If you choose to load a pump 12ga or use a shotgun for protection, be ready to deal with the constraints or conditions that come with it.
Learn how to move & fire or operate in a CQB(close quarters battle) event.
There are a few useful DVDs & printed manuals that are open source; www.gunvideo.com www.paladin-press.com .
Weapon retention & speed reloading may help too. Some courses are available from top instructors if you have the time-$ for it.

Be ready to quickly deal with a violent attack, home defense incident. Know your LE patrol zone or area to relay to the 911 call center if needed. Have a alarm system or security alert if possible to grant you the time to respond or face a house-breaker. To have first-aid supplies, handcuffs-restraints, etc ready is smart too. If the subject is wounded & you can safely provide aid, you won't look like a blood-thristy nutcase who showed no concern.
This may seem extreme but I've seen many media & legal cases where property owners-apt rentors were unfairly critized.

CF
ps; Don't fire warning shots! That is Hollywood BS. Be ready to use lethal force in a prudent manner or don't use a firearm at all.
 
As I've posted before in other forum topics, I'm not a huge fan of shotguns or patrol rifles as defense weapons-home protection.
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Why do some speak as though it's a choice between pistol, rifle, or shotgun?

The pistol for most situations, because it's readily accessible. But the shotgun or rifle when time permits, and/or in situations where, for example, one is barricaded in the safe room guarding the door. Or upstairs, guarding the stairs, or.........well, a number of other situations as well.

Ayoob referred to the pistol as infantry, and the shotgun as artillery. There's a tactical advantage for using the proper one at the appropriate time.

And yes, the first weapon I'd obtain for home defense would be the pistol.:cool:
 
I keep an 870 with a forend light next to my bedstand, the first round is Federal #4 buck, the next 6 rounds are Hornady TAP 00. While there are several arguments against mixed loads, my reasoning is this: I live in a townhouse so I do not want any over penetration. If the #4 Buck for whatever reason fails to stop the threat, I will have at least been able to maneuver myself into a position with good enough geometry to be able to engage with the 00 and not have to worry about penetrating walls.
 
"Ayoob referred to the pistol as...
And yes, the first weapon I'd obtain for home defense would be the pistol."

And as many others have said, the handgun is what you use until you can get to something BETTER!!!:eek:

Why not just start with "better?:rolleyes:

T.
 
CQB, ranges, shotguns-rifles...

I'm not against 12ga shotguns per se, I just think they have a limited use in some home defense environments.
An apt, townhouse or condo will be a "close quarters" area. In the stress & chaos of a break-in(mostly during low light hours/early AM), could you safely handle a full size pump shotgun, a white light, a cell phone, etc.
Also consider you may need to open doors, hold rails, pull drapes-blinds.
A rifle or shotgun is a useful defense tool but to me, it's not always the "best" choice.
A tactics-defense instructor online also displayed several simple ways a home owner/apt dweller could be quickly disarm of a long gun(rifle-12ga).
A shotgun is also loud, has recoil & blast. A smaller handgun does too but not at the same level.

CF
ps; if you do plan to buy a new model 500 pump 12ga, I'd get a Knoxx recoil reducer stock. Many US police & security agencies issue Knoxx stocks for duty shotguns. See; www.Blackhawk.com .
 
And as many others have said, the handgun is what you use until you can get to something BETTER!!!

Why not just start with "better?
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The concept of the pistol is that's it's more likely to be available, whether carried on the street or kept close by in the home. The long gun needs more warning before it can be gotten to and deployed. Yes, if you have that warning, then use the long gun.

I've read many accounts of SD shootings, as most of us have. Can't remember offhand reading an instance where someone "used their pistol to fight their way to their long gun", though that's a nice little quote, often used by newbies who read magazine articles and haven't read much about real world shootings.

Not saying it can't happen, however. The natural place I'd retreat to (if I can make it) has an 870 waiting for me.

NOTE: It was Ayoob who pointed out in his piece about the Dartmouth Professor Murders, that detectives who researched home invasion robberies were so taken with how fast they could occur that some began arming themselves at all times on their person, while off duty, in their own homes.


Things are likely going to be settled with what you have when it all starts, in any event.
 
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Birdshot is for birds - a former VP shot a lawyer in the face with birdshot and he survived.

Now, I won't willingly stand in front of even a .410 revolver filled with birdshot as it can certainly be lethal. But if I'm using a shotgun for self defense, I'm using standard - not reduced power "tactical" - 00 buck.

I can't choose my assailant - the bad guy may not be some skinny teenager, he could be a 6'7' 280 lb steroid-pumped biker in full leathers with a handful of PCP up his nose; in this kind of situation, I want something that will put him down right now whether he feels it or not; there are no absolutes, but 00 buck stands a darned good chance of doing just that.
 
I put this on another thread this morning But

For thse wanting to use slugs, I recently shot some frozen one gallon water jugs. Federal Magnum 3 inch 1 1/4 oz hollow point rifled slugs put a heck of a hole in the ice and penetrated about 2 inches. I also had Remington 3 inch Magnum 1 oz sabot hollow points. They are supposed to expand to twice their caliber. Well, they blew giant chunks out of the ice and broke the remainder of the ice in half. So, if over penetration is a concern I highly suggest to do some testing. I was actually wanting to use those Remingtons for deer, not anymore (too much damage will be done). And I'm sure they'd stop an intruder in their tracks, but I'm almost positive it will go through someone. Between the 2, the Federals seem to be a better suited round.
 
FWIW, I just got a reponse to an email I sent to Federal. It seems there are no plans at this time to put the LE132 1B load into the non-LEO market as PD132 1B. I guess anyone who wants it will have to get it from a police supply that will sell to non-LEOs.
 
For th0se wanting to use slugs, I recently shot some frozen one gallon water jugs. Federal Magnum 3 inch 1 1/4 oz hollow point rifled slugs put a heck of a hole in the ice and penetrated about 2 inches..........
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Shooting slugs at ice sounds fun. But provides no useful information to speak of.

The Brenneke slugs tested produced penetration in ballistic gelatin from just under 12"-- all the way to 35" for the Special Forces 2/ 3/4".

http://www.brennekeusa.com/cms/file..._enforcement/user_upload/Dokumente/THD_LE.pdf
 
When a slug goes clear through that much ice and keeps going, to me, that proves it has way to much over penetration. And this was at about 18 yards.
 
When a slug goes clear through that much ice and keeps going, to me, that proves it has way to much over penetration. And this was at about 18 yards.
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OK, that's proof enough for you.

Just saying that if you want a PRECISE evaluation of how different slugs stack up against each other in a substance designed to imitate actual animal tissue, then check out some of the ballistics testing. It's not perfect, but allows for comparison.

If you want a slug that expands a lot and penetrates a little (for a slug), look at something like Fed. Tac, which has a good reputation of staying in bad buys.

Ice doesn't represent anything you'd be shooting into for self defense. ALL slugs will make a mess of ice. Even bone doesn't approach ice for hardness. Yes, I have to admit, ice blowing up is testimony to the power of the the shotgun slug, but not i'ts penetration in actual shootings.

I've always found it interesting that so much of what takes place on forums represents theories and ignores actual street results from various LE agencies that use the ammo. 155 gr. vs. 180, this slug vs. that, expansion vs. penetration. We don't have to re-invent the wheel. Actual results (for which there're plenty) supercede theories---except, of course, in the minds of those more dedicated to theory than they are understanding actual results. Most of us, including myself, are guilty of it from time to time. Old thoughts die hard.;):D

Getting back a little more on topic: 00 buck works extremely well. Ask LE.
Birdshot is safer for both Bubba and innocents. In between is a compromise.
Slugs are awesome and can really penetrate, but there's only one projectile you're responsible for.
Don't understand what the argument is about. Take your choice and live with it.:cool:
 
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NOTE: It was Ayoob who pointed out in his piece about the Dartmouth Professor Murders, that detectives who researched home invasion robberies were so taken with how fast they could occur that some began arming themselves at all times on their person, while off duty, in their own homes.
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They're not the only ones. Many of us here do the same. And as comfortable as it is for me, why not?
 
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