Best storage for self-defense gun?

S

Seronac

New member
What would be the best way to store a self-defense weapon in my home/bedroom? By "best" I mean:
1. Gun is concealed and protected from damage.
2. Safe: Not accessible to children. No chance of accidental firing.
3. Easily and quickly accessible to me in a emergency situation.
4. Inexpensive. Maybe less than $50?
Thanks in advance.
 
Since you posted in Handguns, I'll work from the premise that you're talking about a pistol/revolver as your primary HD gun.

1) For concealment and protection, I use a Brinks lockbox. Rated to 1500 for 3 hours, $35, and it doesn't look like a gun safe (since it isn't). It'll hold a G20 and 3 mags with room to spare.

2) "No" chance of accidental firing? Keep no ammo in the house and post a rabid dog in front of the gun. To minimize the risk, since it can't be eliminated, keep the gun (minus the slide if it's a semiauto) in the lockbox and ammo locked up in another room. This puts you at a significant tactical disadvantage.

3) That lockbox can be opened, assuming you have the key, in 2 seconds. Your motor control goes to hell in a bad situation, so plan on increasing that to at least 30 seconds. You *will* be shaking and gasping.

4) Price is noted above.

HTH. :)
 
Look into the Gunvaults (www.gunvault.com). Very fast, much more secure than most competing storage methods -- both because the combination is "deeper" than the Simplex locks and because the thing is physically tougher. No keys required -- but you can use one if you want, and you can also use it if the batteries die. I open mine twice/24 hrs and although I can't promise that things wouldn't go to spit in a crisis, the muscle memory is pretty well-grooved at this point. Expensive, but fast and secure; worth a look.
 
Why not always in a nice inside the waistband holster 24/7?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JNewell: ... because the combination is "deeper" than the Simplex locks ...[/quote]I have one of those security boxes with a simplex lock and passed on the gunvault because it requires batteries and in an emergency situation, I don't want to have to relie on anything electrical in nature but now you've got me curious, exactly what do you mean by "deeper"?
Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
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seronac, if it hasn't been mentioned already, welcome to TFL!

Plan to spend more. In the short run, a combination trigger lock, and 'hiding' the firearm will be better than nothing. For more safety, don't leave a round in the chamber. You can also use padlocks and other creative solutions - the American Guardian had an issue covering this about 6 months ago.

Better solutions are the MiniVault, noted about. More expensive still, but slick, is the GunLocker: http://www.gunlocker.com/ These 'electronic' solutions seem to have good safeguards regarding power loss.

Quality firearms storage is expensive. But, consider the expense, and value, of all the things you are protecting.

Regards from AZ
 
FUD -- by "deeper" I mean there are more (lots more) combination possibilities, because although there are only four buttons, you can require up to six pushes in any order -- and a "push" of a button can be multiple buttons. I have mine set up so that one of the "pushes" is actually all four buttons pressed at once. Aside from the way this expands the number of variations, it also makes it pretty unlikely that a child's hand could ever deliver the necessary "key stroke."

As far as electricity goes, it can also be opened with a key (with the batteries either operating or dead), so there shouldn't be a problem there.

There's a great article called "Keeping the Piece" by Lynn Bates at www.aware.org. She took several gun safety products and had her kids and their friends "attack" them. In a surprisingly short period of time, they could open the simplex combo locks just by experimenting, and they were also able to pry open most of the products. Not very encouraging, since these kids weren't exactly seasoned professionals! Obviously, everything can be broken open someway by someone, but I was surprised at how easily many of the products were defeated.
 
JNewell,

One thing about Lynn Bates article is you have to keep in mind why you want the "handgun safe." Although her kids were able to jack open most, if not all, of the safes in an astoundingly short amount of time, they were never able to get "undectected" entry into the safes, i.e. there was no chance you kid would "sneak" into the safe and get the gun. If you want to keep out determined theives, and still keep the gun handy in an emergency, then you have to go to something pretty substantial. If you just want to keep out "uninvited" entry (i.e. someone sneaking the gun out), but still be able to get to it in an emergency, then you have a few more choices. I have a Cannon Quicksafe (don't even know if they make them anymore), and although you could jack it open pretty easily with a crowbar (as my good friend found out the hard way when his home was burglarized), I have every confidence my kids (4 and 5) cannot figure out how to get into it, which is my main concern. When I get around to it, I'm going to drop the bucks for one of these: http://www.handgunsafe.com/index.htm. Now there's a handgun safe that's quick AND dead-bolt secure.
 
I have a Mossberg Instant Access safe; see www.mossbergsafes.com/firearm.html

The Mossberg safe has an electronic key pad. You press any key to light the key pad, then enter your code followed by the pound key.

The virtues are that the key pad is visible in the dark, and if you use your ATM PIN number as your code, then entry of the code is a very familiar process. This may help you under stress. On 2 or 3 occasions I was awakened in the middle of the night by our house alarm suddenly ringing; luckily these were false alarms, but I was operating under the assumption that there was a break-in. Each time I was able to open the safe rapidly on the first try. Entry of the code was basically automatic.

One childproofing feature is that if you enter an incorrect code a certain number of times, the safe emits a beeping noise and freezes up for a little while. I felt that the "childproof" aspect of this feature outweighed the risk that I would fumble the code repeatedly under stress. I have 2 kids and keep the safe in a dresser drawer with a childproof latch.

The Mossberg safe is not inexpensive (over $200). Also, there is no ability to open the safe with a key. The safe runs on a 9 Volt battery (with a second backup battery if the main battery fails), and emits warning signals if either battery is running low on juice. Not the perfect set up, but for now it's what I'm using.

V-Line Industries (www.vlineind.com) makes a line of steel-box type safes with Simplex locks. These are less expensive than the Mossberg and you don't have to worry about any electronics failing.

[This message has been edited by eje (edited June 27, 2000).]
 
JNewell, thanks for the info. Most of my firearms are locked away in a safe. However, I do have a few of them in various parts of the house secured with a Simplex lock for quick access no matter where I might be. Having a little one, you really have me curious with regard to how well the guns are secured with the Simplex lock. I went to the site that you provided and followed several links but could not find any data on the Simplex locks. Also, when I first got them, I changed the combination and misplaced the paper for a few days and was unsuccessful in getting it open. Even though it doesn't have as many possibilities as the gunvault that you have, it still has about 50,000+ different possible combinations.

I realize that you mentioned that the gunvault comes with a key in case the batteries fail to function, but first trying the combination a couple of times and then getting the key seems a bit too lengthy of a process in an emergency situation.

Although, the fact that the Simplex lock was easily & quickly opened by children just by experimenting really has me concerned. Can you point me to a link or two on this. Thanks, FUD.
 
FUD,

Here's the link: http://www.aware.org./lkeeping.htm. Suggest you read the entire article.

Note that the Simplex locks were NOT opened by kids just experimenting. Here are her comments from the conclusion: "All the locks will do a fine job of defeating younger children. The Simplex and BTI locks will keep out older children as well. Although the BTI lock can have many more combinations than the Simplex locks on the other safes, kids probably won't figure out a Simplex combination unless they see you operate the lock (or get old enough to take a course in mathematical combinatorics and make your gun box their class project)."

They (her kids) WERE able to jack open the boxes using tools, but all boxes showed the "intrusion." Again, her comments: "Eleven and 12 year old kids broke into every box we tested with simple tools. This was a result I did not expect - I really thought I'd get to keep some of the candy! These boys had a hammer and a baseball bat available, but chose screwdrivers and a pry bar, which worked wonderfully. Two kids working together can exert a lot more force than one, but probably anything 2 kids can do in 10 minutes 1 kid could do in a couple of hours. Just remember the final scores: empty-handed kids 0, boxes 5; kids with tools 5, boxes 0...A sturdy lock box protects guns from casual theft, and from basically good kids who might fiddle with the lock from time to time but who don't want to risk the consequences of prying open the family gun box. It is not a good way to keep firearms out of the hands of serious juvenile delinquents, potentially suicidal teenagers, or tool-bearing burglars."

My kids are too young to be "tool users." I want to deter curious youngsters not determined burglars, so my QuikSafe, with it's Simplex lock, is just fine. Note also that HOW YOU MOUNT the "safe" has a lot to do with how secure it is. When I leave the relatively safe area I live in now, I will change to a "Handgun Box," as my needs will change to deterring curious youngsters AND determined burglars. BTW, all the other guns (other than the "ready" one) are in the big gun safe, locked at all times.

Scott

[This message has been edited by ScottS (edited June 27, 2000).]
 
Update on Simplex locks: (1) According to the article, there are 1081 combinations available. Without seeing someone use the combination, the kids were never able to break the *combination*. (2) The little simplex lock tab (bolt) IS lightweight, but look at the date of this article (1993). Since it was written, many gunsafe manufacturers have addressed this issue. For example, my Palmer Security Products safe connects the Simplex tab to two hardened 1/4" steel bolts which, in turn, do all the latching.

Hope this helps,

Bob

By the way, Palmer's URL seems to be non-functional.
 
Bobbalouie & ScottS, thanks for the input as I was seriously thinking about alternative ways to store my firearms but I wasn't exactly sure how -- the majority of the stuff is in the safe but I like to keep a few around in a simlex locked strong box for quick access in different parts of the house. By the way, when I tried to access that link that you posted, I received the following error ... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>access to /usr/WWW/kiosk/Newbury/awareweb//lkeeping.htm failed, reason: File does not exist[/quote]... might be just me, though. Thanks again,
FUD
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Share what you know, learn what you don't.
 
Scott, thanks for supplying the link.

FUD, in my mind the only purpose of the key is to provide a fail-safe solution if the batteries die -- for ordinary access, I'd use the keypad.

All, I agree that these things are not primarily (or maybe even secondarily) to frustrate burglary. The primary mission is to keep unauthorized users from gaining access to a readily available firearm. The secondary mission may be to comply with local safe-storage laws, I guess.

On the Simplex locks, if there are <1,100 possible combinations, I would think that if a kid sat down for a while and just methodically started entering combinations, s/he'd succeed? Dunno; certainly that would be the case with the ordinary three-digit combination lock (which I realize is a very different creature).

As far as non-destructive entry goes...I don't think burglary is in the mission, so the question is kids/guests/etc. I don't know exactly where I come out on this, but I am a little concerned that it may not be wise to think that a box that a kid can pry open in a few minutes with a screwdriver is a good purchase. Sure, it would be obvious. But that didn't stop the kids in Arkansas who attacked one of the kids' fathers' safe with a torch. We can all say (I would, too <g> ) "well, my kids would never do that." Mebbe -- but what about their friends? With some of the boxes Lynn Bates' kids defeated, all it would take is a screwdrive and the time it takes for your kid to use the toilet!

I am probably sounding like I'm picking an argument -- which is not what I am trying to do. It's a complicated series of questions and I don't think the answers are one-size-fits-all, but I do think it pays to think through all of the possibilities -- even remote possibilities -- before you buy, since most of these are not cheap.
 
ScottS has probqbly identified one of the better options, if not the best, at http://www.handgunsafe.com/. Lynn didn't test this one. Gun Tests magazine did a test of the R&D Enterprises' products (along with the Gun Vault which they opened by banging on it with a shoe) and found the HanDGUN BOX unlikely to be broken into and the one they recommended.
 
JNewell,

I agree with most everything you said. For some reason--and I'm a gadget-wonk, so this shouldn't be true--I just have trouble with the battery-operated safes. I just see me with dead batteries in my flashlights.

As soon as my kids are old enough to work the screwdriver and prybar act, I'm switching to "The Handgun Box." I, too, remember the kids in AR going after the safe. I guess, too, I'm a believer in "if I get to have the guns, then I have the responsibility to make sure no bad people get the guns." I KNOW my kids won't go after them, but, like my buddy found out, that doesn't mean someone else won't. In his case, a neighbor kid--a real juvie delinquent--got into the house, found his QuikSafe, and jacked it open with a hammer and screwdriver. Got his Sig P226 plus two mags of ammo. Cops got the kid, but never recovered the gun. (He now has The Handgun Box BOLTED to the floor beneath his bed.) I want to make sure 1) I can get to the gun in an "emergency;" and 2) no one else can.

Scott
 
As a tangential topic, does anyone have a good solution for a portable, semi-secure box for locking a handgun while traveling? I'm looking for a box that can be locked to contain my CCW weapon when, for instance, I'm visiting friends and remove the gun from my person at night, etc. Ideally, it would be light and portable with a keyed lock primarily for keeping the idle curious out -- the weapon will be safely on my person at all other times. Maybe also something that would be airline legal for flying?

I'm eventually going to bolt a small handgun safe in the trunk of my car for when I travel to places I cannot carry (Post Office, etc.), but I'd rather not leave any gun in my car overnight if I don't have to. Anyone with any ideas? Thanks.

Andrew
 
awisler, you may want to look at the <A HREF="http://www.agenglish.com/palmer.html" TARGET=_blank>Palmer line ...
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... I've never used any of their products myself but they appear to be very similar to the V-Line stuff that I have used and I think that the Palmer stuff more closely matches what you are looking for. However, bear in mind that it doesn't appear to come with a key. Instead, it uses that Simplex lock that we've been talking about.

ScottS, I also like gadgets, but just like you, I prefer not to have to depend on anything electrical in nature during a possible life & death situation -- never know when we might have a solar flare or high sunspot activity (like what happened in 1989 where one third of Canada was short-circuited for a few hours).

Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
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