best self-defense caliber

[Scorch]

As others have so assertively stated, a rifle makes a poor self-defense weapon for close quarters. That is why handguns were invented. A 1911 or Glock in 45ACP is accepted as a good self-defense weapon because of its deliverable kinetic energy, controllability, and ease of use. More power makes a handgun less controllable, and smaller size makes it less controllable. A smaller caliber generally makes the handgun more controllable but delivers less energy to the target. So get what experts use for close quarters self-defense.

 

[2GunCorcoran]

Except for the fact if its a poor shot, they are unlikely to die from either.

But more likely to die from the .44. What if it's just close enough for the caliber to make a difference? If John Hinckley jr. had used a .44 magnum instead of just a .22, it probably would have made the difference between life and death.

 

[nate45]

Anyone who has ever hunted deer knows that after they are shot, they run a short way before falling over dead. In a self-defense situation, you want to stop the attack immediately. A viable self-defense round must therefore be not only lethal, but instantly lethal. What do you think is the best round for this purpose?

1) Deer don't always run

2) The only instantly lethal gunshots are ones that strike the CNS ie spine and brain

3) There is no 'best' defense round, many work equally well

4)Why is this in Art of the Rifle?

 

[2GunCorcoran]

a rifle makes a poor self-defense weapon for close quarters.

Only if you have to maneuver it around. If you hide in your room and wait for the goblin(s) to come to you, which you should, maneuverability won't even be an issue.

 

[5.56RifleGuy]

Or it could have been the very same result.

Also, if you have something to contradict everything that everyone points out, why bother asking the question? You seem to already know the answer.

 

[jmr40]

Since this is posted in the rifle forum the correct answer is a small short barreled AR shooting softpoint 223 ammo. For close range home defense use it is about as good as it gets. Very little penetration in walls, low recoil and in a easy to use, dependable platform.

But truthfully, at the really close ranges inside a home a handgun is probably a better choice since it is used with 1 hand, leaving the other to open doors, operate a light, etc.

 

[2GunCorcoran]

But isn't this a rifle caliber question? So what do 9mm pistols and shotguns have to do with it?

4)Why is this in Art of the Rifle?

I put it in Art of the Rifle because I wanted suggestions for a good self-defense rifle round. Other posters disagreed altogether with the premise of using a rifle for self-defense, so they suggested shotguns.

 

[2GunCorcoran]

Also, if you have something to contradict everything that everyone points out, why bother asking the question? You seem to already know the answer.

The question wasn't whether or not a bigger round would have more stopping power. That was the premise. The question was, what are some good rifle rounds for this purpose?

 

[RC20]

That is assuming you have the room to maneuver the shot gun and is always within reach.

In my LE career I did a heck of a lot of building searches. More often then not, the shotgun was in the way.

SD situations do sometimes result from home invasions. If you're setting on the couch watching TV, and your shotgun is in the bedroom next to your bed, then I contend its not the best self defense weapon.

Most SD situations are relatively short range, well within the range of a pistol/revolver.

What's the best, is the one you can shoot, the one thats available, and the one you practice with. I don't care what you use, if you can't hit something with it, and don't shoot it enough to be confident in it and your shooting, you're better off going unarmed.

You can't put it any better than that

 

[2GunCorcoran]

You can't put it any better than that

Self-defense is different from searches. In a home invasion, you're safest if you stay put. As for the gun being in another room, it applies equally to handguns as to long guns. You can carry a handgun wherever you go in the house, but you can do the same with a long gun. It may be an inconvenience, but that's all it is: a minor inconvenience.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Ceteris paribus, a .44 magnum will cause a quicker death than a .22 even if the marksmanship leaves something to be desired.

A human being has around 10-12 pints of blood. Losing approximately 40% of that volume will cause hypervolemic shock in most people. Assuming an identical wound path, making the hole that blood drains through twice as big will result in the person hitting hypervolemic shock quicker; but from a practical standpoint, the time it takes is still going to be a much longer period than you would want someone shooting at you.

Of course, the chance the wound path is identical is small because a .22 magnum is 1/6 of the weight of a .44 magnum round and considerably slower. It is more likely to be deflected in a different direction - which may improve or reduce the speed at which it has an effect on a person.

And all other things are not equal... a .44 magnum has considerably more recoil and flash and slower split times. It will be more difficult to place shots well with such a firearm - particularly if you bought it under the misconception that it was going to make up for your lack of skill.

While on paper, the numbers for a .44 magnum might make it look like the "best caliber", it might not be the best for an elderly lady with arthritis who needs a concealable firearm that can be with here at all times. It might also be less than perfect for someone whose main source of firearms knowledge is Clint Eastwood movies.

If there was one firearm/caliber/optic/etc. that was ideal or best for every situation, we wouldn't sit and argue about it on the Internet. We'd all carry it.

 

[2GunCorcoran]

making the hole that blood drains through twice as big will result in the person hitting hypervolemic shock quicker; but from a practical standpoint, the time it takes is still going to be a much longer period than you would want someone shooting at you.

This is true. The .44 magnum is not a silver bullet. It is not magical, just a piece of metal hitting someone in the chest really, really fast. No ammunition is guaranteed to be 100% effective 100% of the time. That said, some ammo is more likely to stop the goblin and/or to stop him quicker.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

You guys need to do some research. Watch Star Trek once in a while, for Pete's sake! The answer is obviously a phaser set on maximum kill. They DO NOT go through walls or anything else and they instantly vaporize living things.

Seriously, do I have to do ALL the fact finding around here?!

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

That said, some ammo is more likely to stop the goblin and/or to stop him quicker.

As a general statement, it is OK; but it has two problems:

1. Relative vagueness - a grain of sand and a 1,000lb weight is heavier than just a 1,000lb weight. This is indisputable fact. Does the grain of sand make a practical difference if you end up underneath the 1,000lb weight?

2. Select your "best" ammo for any given caliber. In most cases, all a "goblin" has to do is turn sideways and your "best" solution is now your third, fourth, etc. solution. It may even be your worst solution depending on how specialized you went. The ammo that was most likely to stop him a quarter second ago is now least likely to stop him. Alternatively, you can choose ammo that works well under a lot of different conditions; but isn't the best for any of them.

 

[nate45]

Look TwoGun, a highly specialized team of ninja like warriors will invade your home, sooner, or later. Its not a question of if, but when.

Only one long arm and cartridge can possibly protect you. That of course is the 1865 Spencer .50 Caliber Carbine. You have to be good with it though, good enough to hit a crow in the eye flyin'. I would suggest an S&W .45 Schofield for back up.

 

[Picher]

The .357 Magnum 125 grain bullet is known for the greatest number of one-shot kills than any other normal handgun round. A .44 magnum with 180 grain bullets may also be equal, but heavier, less expansive bullets in the .44 mag don't seem to be as effective for quickest kills (judging from my experience on deer).

I've read reports on cops shooting perps with 4 or more 9mms and still had them coming forward, only to be laid out by one .357 mag by their partner (after the first cop ran out of ammo).

That said, .357 magnum rounds will deafen and even momentarily blind both the shooter and the intruder in a darkened room. (Closing one eye when shooting one, might be a good tactic, but who would remember that in a stressful situation.) The shock and awe from a short barreled .357 mag is tremendous. Perhaps +P .38 special, 125 grain bullets for first two, then .357 mag 125s for the remaining rounds would be best. If the bad guy is still coming after the +Ps, extra power is obviously needed and would be welcome, even if it means wearing hearing aids the rest of one's life.

 

[Colonel Custer]

my 2 cents worth

The 12 guage pump shotgun is a premier home defense weapon. You have the option of loading a variety of rounds for your shooting preference. from been bag rounds to 1 0z slugs (the new O.C. round, and the tazer round -ouch!!!) it is a multipurpose tool to hunt dear in the brush heavy areas and defend ma and pa from rustlers. 9mm is available in a carbine (not that i would recommend it) from High point. Therefore falls in to the rifle option. Though most LE agencies have moved on from the 9mm due to over penetration (upwards of two miles in an urban setting) to the 40 cal pistol. Several smaller departments in my region still carry .357 magnums.

Quietly looks around polishes badge and chevrons then steps back into the crowd.

 

[Rifleman 173]

What makes any and all firearms work are:

1. Good shot placement.
2. Multiple high speed hits.
3. Good tactics.

The reason the H&K MP-5 works so amazing well is that SWAT teams and SEAL teams use these firearms with really good tactics, good shot placement and use them to lay multiple hits on target using high speed. By using those 3 same issues, you can make just about any firearm really effective.

Take a 9 mm or .45 caliber pistol in lieu of an MP-5. Tactics: get close to the target by means of speed. Place the bullets from your handgun right where they need to be and use multiple rounds in the form of double taps. Hit again with double taps as long as the target remains a threat or is still standing.

Alternate shooting technique: Mozambique shooting scenario where you fire 2 rounds into the chest and 1 round into the head. Repeat as needed until the threat is eliminated.

 

[lawnboy]

Just shoot 'em with both of your guns. That oughta work. John Wayne used two guns in True Grit and the bad guys fell off their horses, splat, right on the ground.

 

[RT]