best self-defense caliber

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2GunCorcoran

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Anyone who has ever hunted deer knows that after they are shot, they run a short way before falling over dead. In a self-defense situation, you want to stop the attack immediately. A viable self-defense round must therefore be not only lethal, but instantly lethal. What do you think is the best round for this purpose?
 
It isn't the round, its where it hits that makes it "instantly lethal". Deer do indeed drop dead right there, if they are hit in the right place. So does everything else.

There is a much larger area where a hit is lethal, but not instantly, and that's where we usually wind up putting our shots.
 
The deer comparison also ignores the reality of the fact that bullets also miss and/or pass through deer without the consideration of going on to hit the room/house next door injuring the bsaby/kid/neighbor/guy driving down the street.
The short answer is the same as it's been for 25-30 years, the best caliber continues to be 12ga. in a nice reliable pump. It's truly the dumb perp that does not recognise the clear sound of a pump shotgun being racked from the bedroom. That alone is a pretty good deterant.
 
Examine the battle reports, even .50BMG cannot be guaranteed to stop someone DRT. After all is said and done, only practiced skill with an adequate power level can do that - most of the time.

There's also the concept that the assailant actually cease all resistance upon contact. Can't be done with pepper spray or a Taser, either. What's important to note is that the need to stop all continued assault might be the problem - is that really needed? By what justification? Is it reasonable to insist on "Instant Safety," or better to train for continued resistance as a response?

Pull the trigger and it's all done, no possible way their will be a second assailant, another perp who responds, the hidden lookout guy, you can drop your guard now, nothing else is going to happen?

Dead right there is ok for hunting ethics, no loss of game. As said, doesn't happen very often. I've only seen it once, a rear quarter shot on a 90 pound forkhorn, with an 8mm Remington Magnum. All my deer have run, even shot through the heart.

It's better to expect a minimum of 30 seconds of conscious resistance, and then it won't be surprising if it turns out to be thirty minutes. Otherwise, you just set yourself up to experience disaster. Assuming every shot will guarantee DRT is planning for failure. It's the exception, not the rule.
 
The short answer is the same as it's been for 25-30 years, the best caliber continues to be 12ga. in a nice reliable pump.
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That is assuming you have the room to maneuver the shot gun and is always within reach.

In my LE career I did a heck of a lot of building searches. More often then not, the shotgun was in the way.

SD situations do sometimes result from home invasions. If you're setting on the couch watching TV, and your shotgun is in the bedroom next to your bed, then I contend its not the best self defense weapon.

Most SD situations are relatively short range, well within the range of a pistol/revolver.

What's the best, is the one you can shoot, the one thats available, and the one you practice with. I don't care what you use, if you can't hit something with it, and don't shoot it enough to be confident in it and your shooting, you're better off going unarmed.
 
It isn't the round, its where it hits that makes it "instantly lethal". Deer do indeed drop dead right there, if they are hit in the right place. So does everything else.
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This is true, but some calibers are more forgiving than others.

That alone is a pretty good deterant.
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But it is not a sufficient one.

SD situations do sometimes result from home invasions. If you're setting on the couch watching TV, and your shotgun is in the bedroom next to your bed, then I contend its not the best self defense weapon.
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I would carry a weapon in my house. A long gun can be carried. Handguns are just more convenient.
 
You can carry a double barreled sawed off shotgun with all the NFA paperwork needed - it still won't guarantee somebody will be stopped instantly.

The concept itself can't be found in reality, I lump it with Home Defense, TEOTWAWKI, zombies, and most other metaphysical argumentation. Great in theory, no practical reality. Can't be proven.

The OP probably didn't mean this interpretation, but stuff like that is just a troll thread. Everybody jumps in with fabricated 1% situations to prove a point, when in reality, it's going to be practiced skill and patience that endures. Not a mythical One Shot Stop - Guaranteed!

It doesn't happen guaranteed hunting, as the OP points out. Not in battle, not in Police crime statistics, and certainy cannot be assumed in training. There is no Guaranteed DRT bullet, cartridge, or gun. The evidence is right there in front of us.
 
Kraig, I interpreted defense as home defense as opposed to "carry" situations in which case all your points are well taken.
 
If you want something that is going to have a great one stop shot probability and you don't want to worry about shot placement, you could always go with an M79. Might want to make it a MK19 just to be safe though.
 
2GunCorcoran said:
Anyone who has ever hunted deer knows that after they are shot, they run a short way before falling over dead.
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Thats not correct, they don't always run, sometimes they drop in their tracks. Conversely, they don't always run a short distance.

I've seen ones shot through the heart/lungs with hi-powered rifles run over a hundred yards and ones shot in the heart/lungs with a .22 lr DRT.

Also, my father has dropped them in their tracks with his crossbow and had them run far with the same.

Bottom line is you don't know till after you shoot.
 
The biggest determinant in whether a shot is effective at stopping someone is shot placement. Everybody agrees that this is true; but for some reason people like to believe that their choice of caliber can compensate for a lack of skill in this area.

2GunCorcoran said:
This is true, but some calibers are more forgiving than others.
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Bullet construction is arguably more important than caliber. For example, a 55gr M193 round in 5.56mm will make a bigger permanent cavity in gel than a 150gr M80 ball round in 7.62x51. And at the end of the day, the differences between calibers aren't as dramatic as internet lore would have you believe. In an extreme case, you might get an extra 1" or so of room for error... which isn't going to compensate for poor shot placement in most cases.

RockRiverWhisperer said:
I like shotgun with bird shot, will not go through wall to next room
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In local houses, a "wall," such as it is, is two pieces of 5/8" drywall mounted to studs with no insulation. I've put a doorknob through one half of such a wall by opening the door too fast. You know what I've never done? Put a doorknob through somebody's skin/sternum by opening a door too fast.

Which leads me to the following conclusion: If it truly will not go through the wall of a typical house around here, it is a dangerously underpowered load to be using when facing an immediate threat of death or serious bodily injury (which is the only time I am allowed to use deadly force where I live).

Let's face it, if drywall were effective at stopping bullets, people wouldn't run around with 8lb 1" thick steel/ceramic plates in vests to stop bullets, they'd drop a sheet of 5/8" drywall in and save weight and thickness. Something that stops in drywall is not something that is a smart idea to use on a 200lb mammal.

And that is one area where caliber DOES play a part - if you have perfect shot placement; but the shot only penetrates 2", you aren't going to immediately stop any 200lb mammal unless that mammal happens to have its central nervous system or large blood bearing organs less than 2" deep. For some reason, there don't seem to be many of those. I suppose Mother Nature sorted most of them out a long time ago.
 
Bullet construction is arguably more important than caliber. For example, a 55gr M193 round in 5.56mm will make a bigger permanent cavity in gel than a 150gr M80 ball round in 7.62x51. And at the end of the day, the differences between calibers aren't as dramatic as internet lore would have you believe. In an extreme case, you might get an extra 1" or so of room for error... which isn't going to compensate for poor shot placement in most cases.
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Ceteris paribus, a .44 magnum will cause a quicker death than a .22 even if the marksmanship leaves something to be desired. You are correct in stating that this is no substitute for marksmanship, but it helps.
 
"a .44 magnum will cause a quicker death than a .22 even if the marksmanship leaves something to be desired"

What do you base that upon?
 
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