I went with a bottom pour after first trying a lattle(Lyman) and I just couldn't get confortable with that process.As frankenmauser said,I was constantly fighting oxidation and getting good pours. I didn't spend a whole lot of time with it,I just ordered a cheap Lee drip-o-matic 20# 220v(better than the 110v).I am quite happy with the bottom pour(an RCBS would be ideal).I haven't found any molds that I couldn't get good bullet with from it.It mostly requires holding the molds at an angle so the lead swirls and pushes the air out better.Every mold has its likes and dislikes(some want hot temps, some work well colder,others a big sprue puddle,another a small puddle,ect...), you have to try different things till the bullets come out good.
Best place to buy lead cheap
- Thread starter ronz
- Start date
There's a bunch of different methods to casting boolits. Or three main methods with variations.
1. Ladle casting.
2. Bottom pouring.
3. Pressure casting.
Ladle casting is simply pouring molten alloy on top of the sprue plate, attempting to hit the hole in the sprue plate.
Bottom pouring is similar to flooding the sprue plate with alloy, BUT the thin narrow stream can be aimed to enter the sprue hole directly in the center. This is done by the use of mold guides that position the sprue hole under the spout.
Pressure casting is accomplished by several related methods. A ladle like the rowel, or Lyman has a teet or spout on the bottom of the bowl. It's shaped like the chamfer of the sprue hole, to mate with it to create a seal. The teet is seated in that chamfered hole, then the ladle and mold is rotated to the verticle to let the lead flow into the mold. The ladle is held in contact with the sprue plat for a few seconds, which allows the cooling boolit to draw lead alloy from the bowl of the ladle. That the ladle is separated from the sprue plate to form a sprue puddle.
Bottom pouring is much faster than ladle casting. Some will argue it just as fast, but I disagree. Especially when casting with more than a 2 cavity mold.
Another thing is where the lead alloy is coming from. Ladles have to be dipped into the surface of the lead, DUH! That agitates the hot lead causing it to oxidize more rapidly. ANY disturbance of the surface of the alloy introduces it to the atmospheric oxygen, causing oxides to form. Oxides that get included,(inclusions), will cause lighter boolits and surface defects.
Bottom pour pots, and ladles that pour from under the surface of the molten lead alloy, prevent those inclusions.
Lead alloy needs to be fluxed to re-combine the oxides with the alloy. Any carbon bearing substance can be used. The best is sawdust, put it in until it it chars then stir the alloy to remove the dirt and return the oxides to the melt.
I use a combination of the Lyman ladle and the lee 20# bottom pour pot. I also have a lee 20# melter that I use when I'm making a bunch of big boolits. I have at least 10 lee six cavity molds that all get bottom poured. They're mainly handgun boolits. The others are 2 and 4 cavities, some are bottom poured, the rest are pressure cast. I do NOT flood pour from a ladle, too big of a mess! Some of my Mihec molds cannot be flood cast. The rods that support the HP pins would be impossible to use if lead got dumped on them.
The guide rods are on the back side of this mold. They consist of thin steel pins with "E" clips on them, they would be held from sliding if lead got dumped on them. This is a fine example of a cramer type HP mold.
1. Ladle casting.
2. Bottom pouring.
3. Pressure casting.
Ladle casting is simply pouring molten alloy on top of the sprue plate, attempting to hit the hole in the sprue plate.
Bottom pouring is similar to flooding the sprue plate with alloy, BUT the thin narrow stream can be aimed to enter the sprue hole directly in the center. This is done by the use of mold guides that position the sprue hole under the spout.
Pressure casting is accomplished by several related methods. A ladle like the rowel, or Lyman has a teet or spout on the bottom of the bowl. It's shaped like the chamfer of the sprue hole, to mate with it to create a seal. The teet is seated in that chamfered hole, then the ladle and mold is rotated to the verticle to let the lead flow into the mold. The ladle is held in contact with the sprue plat for a few seconds, which allows the cooling boolit to draw lead alloy from the bowl of the ladle. That the ladle is separated from the sprue plate to form a sprue puddle.
Bottom pouring is much faster than ladle casting. Some will argue it just as fast, but I disagree. Especially when casting with more than a 2 cavity mold.
Another thing is where the lead alloy is coming from. Ladles have to be dipped into the surface of the lead, DUH! That agitates the hot lead causing it to oxidize more rapidly. ANY disturbance of the surface of the alloy introduces it to the atmospheric oxygen, causing oxides to form. Oxides that get included,(inclusions), will cause lighter boolits and surface defects.
Bottom pour pots, and ladles that pour from under the surface of the molten lead alloy, prevent those inclusions.
Lead alloy needs to be fluxed to re-combine the oxides with the alloy. Any carbon bearing substance can be used. The best is sawdust, put it in until it it chars then stir the alloy to remove the dirt and return the oxides to the melt.
I use a combination of the Lyman ladle and the lee 20# bottom pour pot. I also have a lee 20# melter that I use when I'm making a bunch of big boolits. I have at least 10 lee six cavity molds that all get bottom poured. They're mainly handgun boolits. The others are 2 and 4 cavities, some are bottom poured, the rest are pressure cast. I do NOT flood pour from a ladle, too big of a mess! Some of my Mihec molds cannot be flood cast. The rods that support the HP pins would be impossible to use if lead got dumped on them.
The guide rods are on the back side of this mold. They consist of thin steel pins with "E" clips on them, they would be held from sliding if lead got dumped on them. This is a fine example of a cramer type HP mold.
Thanks for all the help so far
For the pot I’m planning on going with a bottom pour now the LEE PRO 4-20 LEAD MELTER 110 VOLT (20lb CAPACITY) the Lyman ladle and cheapest pot would cost about the same as the cheaper lee bottom pour and for $7 figure it’s better to go to the bigger lee pot
For moulds .311 93gr or 100gr anyone have any experience with the 93gr in a tokarev?
Would either one work in a 308 with gas checks?
I was going to order some 110 grain bullets to try for working up a reduced recoil 308 target round but that just seems silly now that I’m going to be casting
I seriously think I was planning on getting the 93gr just because they are out of the 2 cavity so would have to order the 6 cavity. The tokarev quickly became my favorite gun and I shoot a lot out of it is there any reason I should get the 2 cavity to start with?
For the pot I’m planning on going with a bottom pour now the LEE PRO 4-20 LEAD MELTER 110 VOLT (20lb CAPACITY) the Lyman ladle and cheapest pot would cost about the same as the cheaper lee bottom pour and for $7 figure it’s better to go to the bigger lee pot
For moulds .311 93gr or 100gr anyone have any experience with the 93gr in a tokarev?
Would either one work in a 308 with gas checks?
I was going to order some 110 grain bullets to try for working up a reduced recoil 308 target round but that just seems silly now that I’m going to be casting
I seriously think I was planning on getting the 93gr just because they are out of the 2 cavity so would have to order the 6 cavity. The tokarev quickly became my favorite gun and I shoot a lot out of it is there any reason I should get the 2 cavity to start with?
chris in va
New member
Good choice. I have a used 10# Lee and despite the drips, it has worked quite well. BTW if the spout freezes just hit it with a propane torch or jet lighter for a few seconds.
As for those Tokarev bullets, be sure they are a dedicated gas check design. You can't just clamp one on to a regular bullet.
As for those Tokarev bullets, be sure they are a dedicated gas check design. You can't just clamp one on to a regular bullet.
2.5 / 2.5 / 95
You will not be disappointed in that alloy. I have used some, and my friend prefers it over anything else he has used so far.
Most who sell on CB's ship in Med Flat Rate and keep the weight pretty darned close to the max they can get in the boxes. Most package and secure the ingots VERY well and have little issues. There are however always exceptions.
If your looking for WW ingots look up "TheCaptain" in the Vendor Sponsor section. She usually has clean WW ingots for sale on a regular basis. LOTS of satisfied customers, myself included.
After almost posting htis in the wrong thread, I finished reading this one. LOL
The Lee drip-o-matic isn't a bad place to start at all. Worst case you can drill out and plug the hole if you ever get REALLY tired of it. Best case you will find that with a bit of care and attention it isn't nearly as bad as it sounds. One thing I found that has helped more than anything, I took some 200'ish grit lapping compound when mine was new and lapped the seat and stem to about as perfect a fit as I could get. It took a while to do so but I only get a drip every once in a great while, and that usually is due to where I have it adjusted to. I clean mine about every 6 or so sessions as well to get out the crud that simply doesn't get to the top when fluxing. I only use paraffin flux in mine, but my ingots have been fluxed several times with sawdust ahead of going in, and are VERY clean. Never use the Lee to smelt down raw wheel weights and you will be WAY better off.
One other thing you might pick up to go with your 4-20, is a lead thermometer. If you look in the above mentioned Vendor section on CB's there is a fellow who goes by Swede Nelson who sells a VERY nice and affordable thermometer. It will help you keep your alloy temps close as you empty your pot. The dial on the Lee is simply more or less a rheostat, and as the alloy level drops the temp will climb. Once you get the hang of it it is pretty easy to know when you get to a certain level you need to start backing off the temp a bit.
Hope this helps.
You will not be disappointed in that alloy. I have used some, and my friend prefers it over anything else he has used so far.
Most who sell on CB's ship in Med Flat Rate and keep the weight pretty darned close to the max they can get in the boxes. Most package and secure the ingots VERY well and have little issues. There are however always exceptions.
If your looking for WW ingots look up "TheCaptain" in the Vendor Sponsor section. She usually has clean WW ingots for sale on a regular basis. LOTS of satisfied customers, myself included.
After almost posting htis in the wrong thread, I finished reading this one. LOL
The Lee drip-o-matic isn't a bad place to start at all. Worst case you can drill out and plug the hole if you ever get REALLY tired of it. Best case you will find that with a bit of care and attention it isn't nearly as bad as it sounds. One thing I found that has helped more than anything, I took some 200'ish grit lapping compound when mine was new and lapped the seat and stem to about as perfect a fit as I could get. It took a while to do so but I only get a drip every once in a great while, and that usually is due to where I have it adjusted to. I clean mine about every 6 or so sessions as well to get out the crud that simply doesn't get to the top when fluxing. I only use paraffin flux in mine, but my ingots have been fluxed several times with sawdust ahead of going in, and are VERY clean. Never use the Lee to smelt down raw wheel weights and you will be WAY better off.
One other thing you might pick up to go with your 4-20, is a lead thermometer. If you look in the above mentioned Vendor section on CB's there is a fellow who goes by Swede Nelson who sells a VERY nice and affordable thermometer. It will help you keep your alloy temps close as you empty your pot. The dial on the Lee is simply more or less a rheostat, and as the alloy level drops the temp will climb. Once you get the hang of it it is pretty easy to know when you get to a certain level you need to start backing off the temp a bit.
Hope this helps.
Glad they were out of gas checks I thought they were a gas check design but checked on lees site there not now if I can only find one of the two torches I used to be the proud owner of (dam kid)
Going to have to pick up some lapping compound have been wanting to try lapping a barrel on an old pistol for a while anyway
I had an idea for a thermometer just sticking chimney thermometer on a piece of steel and putting that in the pot but still going to check out that one on cb
Going to have to pick up some lapping compound have been wanting to try lapping a barrel on an old pistol for a while anyway
I had an idea for a thermometer just sticking chimney thermometer on a piece of steel and putting that in the pot but still going to check out that one on cb
FrankenMauser
New member
If you want to lap a barrel for use with lead, be sure to go with 280 grit as an absolute minimum / 320 grit preferred.
I've never compared different brands, but several cast bullet manufacturers recommend only "Clover" brand valve lapping compound.
The 4 oz part number for 320 grit is 1A-51803 but 280 and 400 grit are easier to find. (A-51803 for 280, 2A-51803 for 400)
(The label may carry the Fel-Pro brand name, as well; since Fel-Pro owns them.)
I've never compared different brands, but several cast bullet manufacturers recommend only "Clover" brand valve lapping compound.
The 4 oz part number for 320 grit is 1A-51803 but 280 and 400 grit are easier to find. (A-51803 for 280, 2A-51803 for 400)
(The label may carry the Fel-Pro brand name, as well; since Fel-Pro owns them.)
YARDDOG(1)
New member
"[If your looking for WW ingots look up "TheCaptain" in the Vendor Sponsor section]"
^^^^^^^^^^^^Good Lady Kathy^^^^^^^^^
+1 on that
I got lucky & paw inlaw gave me 300lbs of pore plummers
ingots' 5lb apeice. I ladle cast from a Lyman Big dipper TL 356-124(2)
& a TL358-158. I use the 45-45-10 lube/ 45%Johnsons paste wax cooked
down ad same Alox lube & 10% Mineral spiits Tumble Lube, Goes along ways
Then a couple of cheap Lee sizers 356 & 358 as lee mold throw bigger boolits
& they shoot Fine out of my 9mm's & two Ruger 357mags. No leading so far at about 1,500 rnds so far ; )
Y/D
^^^^^^^^^^^^Good Lady Kathy^^^^^^^^^
+1 on that
I got lucky & paw inlaw gave me 300lbs of pore plummersingots' 5lb apeice. I ladle cast from a Lyman Big dipper TL 356-124(2)
& a TL358-158. I use the 45-45-10 lube/ 45%Johnsons paste wax cooked
down ad same Alox lube & 10% Mineral spiits Tumble Lube, Goes along ways
Then a couple of cheap Lee sizers 356 & 358 as lee mold throw bigger boolits
& they shoot Fine out of my 9mm's & two Ruger 357mags. No leading so far at about 1,500 rnds so far ; )
Y/D
it’s been a long time since I read anything about lapping completely forgot what was recommended you saved me some searching or banging my head against the wall for getting the wrong stuff
stopped by Oriley and all they had was a 2 pack with course and fine didn’t say what grit so going to head to ace see what they have want to have it before the pot arrives so I’m not tempted to just use it without lapping it
stopped by Oriley and all they had was a 2 pack with course and fine didn’t say what grit so going to head to ace see what they have want to have it before the pot arrives so I’m not tempted to just use it without lapping it
I’m getting the lead from Arron at castboolits
Going to make some 45/45/10 lube with Johnson’s paste wax someone brought up using powdered graphite to make a molly lube so even thought about making 2 batches using the one with graphite first then regular 45/45/10 but way too much thinking for someone with no experience
Sure before I know it will have a ton of stuff for now just trying to get the basics my order went from just huge to being a monster but will keep the hungry mouths fed for quite a while
Going to make some 45/45/10 lube with Johnson’s paste wax someone brought up using powdered graphite to make a molly lube so even thought about making 2 batches using the one with graphite first then regular 45/45/10 but way too much thinking for someone with no experience
Sure before I know it will have a ton of stuff for now just trying to get the basics my order went from just huge to being a monster but will keep the hungry mouths fed for quite a while