Best martial art?

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Talking about multiple opponents, it depends on what you learn.

Let me tell you 2 somewhat similar stories.
3 years ago, in highschool, I had a health teacher who happened to be a karate-do 5th degree blabk belt and won multiple tournaments, I think even a national one back in the early 90s. One day he got in a fight with 2 marines(he didn't know it though) at the bar. He broke first guys leg and turned to the second guy, but as he was taking him out, the first one, who was laying on the ground, threw a knife at him which went through the kidney and he had to have it removed, although he survived.

I told this story to my russian friend, who is an ex-spetsnaz operative and now resides in houst, tx (i am getting into a little detail so you wouldn't think i am another 8 year old making up bs)
I told him this story; he smirked and said he got in fight with 14 teenagers who were trying to rob or rape some girl. He got stabbed through the liver with a screw-driver and had to walk to the police station because as the girl ran away she apparently didn't even bother calling 911. Whenever police came to the scene, 5 of the attackers were still there, 3 of them were dead, another four crippled - all together 9 out of 14 were completely disabled, the rest ran away.

When I asked him whether he was THAT good, he said that in a one-on-one fight on the ring with a referee an average black - belt would probably beat the crap out of him; however, he said that even a guy like my health teacher would not stand a chance against him in a street-fight. Why? Because martial arts focus on competitions and self-defence rather than on fighting for your life. He said that in the russian hand-to-hand combat. "systema", there are actually 4 sub-styles: Classical, which deals with tournaments, Self-Defence which deals with real-life situations, such as fights in the bar,on the stair-case, etc. Weapons, where the usage of regualar objects such as news-papers and pencils is studied as well as defence and attack styles with various types of melee weapons, and the last one is the Combat style. It is taught only to the special units and the secret police. It is separated form all other styles because the main purpose of it is not taking someone down or stopping the offender; the ultimate goal is to incapacitate the enemy, i.e. get to the point where your opponent(s) is either paralyzed, dead or in a pain shock.

Now if you are fighting 4 opponents you can run or use 2 them as a shield in your advantage....or you can punch the first one directly in the heart...now you got 3 opponents....2nd one gets a straight kick in the throat wich smashes the bone through the spinal cord...two opponents left...then grab the 3rd one's neck and squeeze for 2-3 seconds while letting the 4th guy do whatever he wants to you...

You have a one-one one, fair fight now; unfotunately, you will be facing an assault, a lethal weapon and three manslaughter charges in the near future.
 
Multiple opponents...bad situation. If there were multiple opponents I would do as LawDog said: Way of the Receding Foot.

TKD kicking techniques are almost useless against multiple oppenents. Any savvy fighter knows that as soon as they see a high kick they can go low and destroy the kicker. If there are multiple people, the kicker will get taken even if he connects high on one person. And this opinion comes from a person with a 1st degree black in TKD.

That said, if I had to fight multiple opponents I would go for the psychological advantage. That is to immediately do as much damage on the closest person in the shortest amount of time possible. Most wolfpacks don't expect their prey to go on the offensive in a ferocious manner. This may deter the others, even if it doesn't you should have incapacitated at least one person for the rest of the fight. After that, I would try to get their attacks to interfere with each other and get them all on one side of me.
 
If you seriously think that you can defeat a handful of opponents in a street fight, I hope you do have that .45 to go along with your TKD.

My Grandmaster took out three guys in about three seconds. In fact, he has done so on two occassions.



In the case of my GM, though he won't talk about it, the story still lingers around town. (It happened about 12 years ago)

many times people who fight in a group do so because they are not good fighters on their own. That's not to say that there aren't thugs around who can fight (trained or not), but to say it is impossible to defend yourself against multiple attackers (without that 45) is not true. My first choice, and it's what I tell my students, is to run away if possible, but as they are running they should also keep glancing behind them to make sure they are not being out "hotfooted".


TKD kicking techniques are almost useless against multiple oppenents. Any savvy fighter knows that as soon as they see a high kick they can go low and destroy the kicker. If there are multiple people, the kicker will get taken even if he connects high on one person. And this opinion comes from a person with a 1st degree black in TKD.

I'm only a 4th degree blackbelt in TKD myself but if all your instructor is teaching you are "high kicks" you need another instructor. The same sidekick that would be foolish to throw at someone's face would be very effective when aimed at their knee instead.

It's not what you train with but how you train in it.
 
just a comment:

The Gracies aren't out mugging people, and I seriously doubt if their students are out mugging people.
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A couple aryan gang members were arrested for beating the crapola out of a guy around the Phoenix area several years ago. They took mixed martial arts and turned the guy into spam. Yep, the tough looking guy (gang poser) might actually have some skills that surprise you.

You should see some of the people going to local mixed martial arts matches, or some of the guys that train in MMA gyms around here. The teardrops on the eyes, spiderwebs on elbows and symbols on the web of the hand are just a couple of the clues...

In the same vein, gang members are reading G&W for LEO, Handgunner, etc. etc. They are getting informed, using quality ammunition, etc. A little bird told me that a local indoor range was becoming frequented so much by gang members/thugfolk that they owners decided to sell and members were not renewing their memberships because they are feeling threatened.

The BGs are getting badder. Some are training too.

This should just serve to make your resolve to train that much stronger.
 
kungfool-
I'm only a 4th degree blackbelt in TKD myself but if all your instructor is teaching you are "high kicks" you need another instructor. The same sidekick that would be foolish to throw at someone's face would be very effective when aimed at their knee instead.
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My instructor taught me a little more than high kicks. I knew someone would make a comment on the high kicks...high kicks are the meat of TKD, otherwise the techniques can be found in every other striking martial art from the U.S. Combatives Manual to JKD. Low kicks are not exclusive to TKD. Thus my comment that TKD kicks would not be effective. I'm referring only to those kicks that are exclusive to TKD.

Call me a pessimist but I think its tough to kick a guy in the knee effectively while his buddies are circling/punching/kicking/tackling/stabbing/shooting/etc.
 
To beat multiple opponents you need to be more skilled than the best they've got, big enough so they can't simply outmuscle you, in good enough shape to fight all of them consecutively without a break, mobile enough to not get cornered & have to fight more than one at a time, have enough power/technique to improve the odds quickly, and be tough as nails and meaner than a mad dog.

In short, you've got to be better, stronger, faster, more mobile, better conditioned, harder hitting, tougher, and meaner than all your opponents combined. And maybe just a bit lucky. Style isn't much of a consideration - it's whether you're a fighter or not.

See, it's simple in principle. It's doing it in real life that's hard.
 
I've never taken any kind of MA training. That said.... I would think that in a real fight two feet on the ground would be preferable to one foot on the ground.
 
qkrthnu- I agree. The only time I like to lift my feet is when I'm attached to the person. For example, I have a hold of them with my hands behind their head, then I might lift my feet to throw some knees.
 
There are always going to be stories of how someone took on "x" number of people and won in "y" number of seconds or some such, whether true or not.

The fact is, very few people have any chance of taking on multiple opponents and winning in an unarmed fight. It depends on many, many factors, not the least of which is sheer luck. Training and conditioning of the multiple attackers and the attacked, experience of everyone involved, terrain, starting distances, etc.

I am big, strong, fast and have a fair amount of training and experience in some rougher martial arts schools but I still don't feel that I could completely overcome more than two or three attackers at the very most. More than anything, I think I could hurt them enough to make them back off or let me escape.

Another thing, though...the human body is capable of amazing things in terms of durability but is also very fragile. I have serious misgivings any time someone tells me anything about taking someone down with one strike of any kind, whether it be fist, foot, knee, elbow, or head. That's the thing about multiple attackers. For example (not even a good one, though), let's say it takes three strikes to take someone out of the fight. You face three attackers. You are twice as fast as they are (a stretch, but let's say it). You need to strike nine times to take them all down but they only need three to take you down. You can only take one guy down and start on another before you go down yourself. I know that's EXTREMELY simplistic, but it demonstrates the point.

Another point...corrections officers. Anyone ever been one? If not, anyone ever seen them on TV? They KNOW that multiple cons are GOING to take them down, even if they have an impact weapon or something. They KNOW that they have to outnumber or "outforce" (i.e. with firearms or something) the prisoners. Do you ever see a single convict taken down by one officer? No. They team up because they do KNOW that a single guy MIGHT be able to hurt two or even three of them. Mostly they dogpile the guy and take him down. That is exactly what will happen to someone who tries to fight multiple assailants in most cases.

Multiple unarmed attackers CAN be beaten, it's just not very likely.
 
A couple aryan gang members were arrested for beating the crapola out of a guy around the Phoenix area several years ago.
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I've seen a few aryan "skinhead" types running around in Buell Fighting Systems shirts, a local MMA fighter/trainer. I'm going to assume they have some training and not just the shirt.
 
Interesting...

I could be very mistaken, but I think these guys (Devil Dogs? - gang NOT USMC) trained out of Roland Sarria's BRAUSA school when it was on the Tempe/Scottsdale border. For the record, Roland has said that he won't train gangmembers or anyone with a bad attitude. I don't know if that's true, but from what I heard and gather from speaking to him on the phone, Sarria is a great guy and it's a bummer if he was associated from training these people.
 
Re: Multiple opponents, I have two observations.

First, I know Kungfool's Grandmaster did in fact take on three young men who considered themselves formidable bar brawlers in their own right. I know one of them well, having worked with him this summer. His name is Dennis and he's from the Springfield, IL area. He told me the story about Grandmaster Perry whupping him and two of his friends in Pawnee, IL when a coworker was spouting about her TKD expertise.
Apparently, they did attack singly. Dennis' heart was not exactly in it, but his friend attacked the GM and got hurt, so he felt honor-bound to jump in. He now regrets it.


Geer,
I say this with all respect, but I think you should take your Russian friend's boasting with a grain of salt. Very few men who have killed three people with their bare hands are so glib, and his ultra-secret Combat Subset Systema seems pretty simplistic. Grab him by the throat and squeeze for 3-4 seconds? I think most people could figure out that sort of technique without a lot of training, and letting someone beat on you at will for a few seconds while you squeeze his buddy's throat isn't going to work well for most people (Darth Vader and the Terminator are notable exceptions.) Besides, have you ever taken a straight punch or kick to the heart? I have. It didn't kill me. I'm sure there are people out there (probably in KF's dojang) who could stop my heart if they could get a perfect, straight shot over the heart, but I wonder how Combat Systema gets that kind of shot?
 
To answer that questions I would have to say that such a subjective question can have no correct answer.

Furthermore IMO MA is simply a hobby. No brand of MA makes you any more lethal than the other. In no way I'am I implying its a waste of time but it does cost in terms of time management.

I've done MA for a number of years and these days I don't have time for it. One day I will pick it up again.

Sometimes the best course for defense is that of self discipline and knowing when to keep your mouth shut. I have the greatest sparring partner for that, my wife. :D
 
martial arts a hobby?..............for some people maybe....for others it is a way of life...a way of staying in optimal physical condition.....a way to keep a warrior's mindset......a way to keep your self-defense skills honed (without having to go around looking for fights)........a way to keep your mind sharp as to the aspects of self-defense.........as you say IYO martial arts is just a hobby........but a good one........*g*

My wife is my sparring partner as well.....literally!.....we practice wrist locks and arn bars on each other.......cuts down on those verbal disagreements we have from time to time........(her tongue is sharper than my ginko!)
 
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