Best long gun for bear defense... the verdict is in!

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The Alaska State Troopers use Brenneke slugs. The soft Foster style are poor performers on large game where penetration is required. Troopers are issued two long guns, an 870 and either an AR-15 or M16. Given those choices, which would you take into the brush in bear country ? Some of the wildlife Troopers do use a variety of different rifles they take from the stockpile of weapons confiscated in wildlife cases. I have a friend who is a wildlife Trooper, he took a Remington 600 .350 Rem Mag to use on duty and I know of another who uses a Pre-64 Model 70 in .338 Win Mag.

Personally, I would agree with those who say 45-70. My favorite 45-70 handloads throw a 405 grain bullet at 2060 FPS, giving 3815 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle and deeper penetration than slugs. This combined with a trim, lightweight lever rifle is a hard combination to beat.
 
i watched that too. i don't remember if they said what they were using for shells.
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AST uses Brennekes same as us.

I've done 3-4 DLP kills in the last 8 years all but one were done with Brenneke slugs. They leave and innie and an outie.

The one I did with a .375 last fall was a complete waste of a good 300 grain Nosler Partition.

A 12 gauge Foster style slug would absolutely be my choice. Forget .45-70's, up close and personal the 12 gauge rules.
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Fosters are fine for back bears since there isn't as much to them as you think, but you aren't getting me to crawl around in the alder bushes with them for brown bears especially late in the fall after they've fattened up and there is more mass to penetrate. Fosters are nothing more than lead thimbles and flatten out quick.

What about those 300 gr jacketed Hornadys with the SST Ballistic Tip
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Too frangible. Hardcast is best.
 
Famed Alaskan hunting guide Andy Runyan's caliber of choice was the 416 Remington magnum loaded with 300gr Barnes X bullets at 2800+ fps.
 
I have a Browning BAR in .338 win mag. With the right ammo and a well placed shot it will take anything in the lower 48 and possibly Alaska as well. I don't feel under gunned when carrying the .338.
 
Step up to the 3 inch slug at the same weight, and you're throwing over 3000 lb of energy at Brother Bear. That beats a .45-70 all to hell and gone.
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from Buffalo Bore websight.
45-70 Magnum - Lever Gun Ammo - 430 gr. L.B.T.-L.F.N.(1,925fps/M.E.3,537 ft.lbs.) - 20 Round Box
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we must have a difference of opinion of beating something to hell and gone.

as to the OP I'd take either my 45/70 or 870 in that situation.
 
I am not disagreeing with slug usage however your standard Walmart foster slugs are way too soft for much penatration. A meat cutter from back east in whitetail country says he gets a coffee can full of flattened slugs each year from deer brought to him for processing. If it will stop in a small whitetail it aint bear medicine in my book. Second their are some very hard slugs out their that should be way more effecient. One thing I have not heard discussed and worth bring up for consideration is the frontal area of the slug. The larger the frontal area the less penatration. This isnt theory but fact. In Africa the mighty 577 and 600 nitro's have a poor reputation for penatration because of their wide flat profile. These behemoth rounds fire 750 and 900 grain bullets at 2000 feet per second. That is 700 feet per second faster than a 12 guage slug, with a smaller frontal profile than a 12 guage. Not arguing that a good hard cast 12 guage wont topple a big bear fast, just something to consider. Lasly dont ever count on the fictitious "knockdown power" it aint there. I shot a small mule deer doe , that had been crippled by a car, in the head at 10' with a 12 guage slug. I shot her between the eyes, I missed the brain by an inch. She didnt even flinch. Im not sure she even blinked her eyes. Just a 1" hole developed between her eyes and a small amount of blood. Had to get another round out to finish her. Just some observations for consideration.
 
A-Square, which specializes in building dangerous game rifles, believes that typical sub-forty caliber magnum cartridges do not transmit sufficient shock to put down large dangerous animals instantly.

High velocity forty + caliber magnum cartridges with properly constructed bullets have what it takes, according to their product literature.
 
Bear DEFENSE vs. bear HUNT

I keep coming back to the difference between a proper arm for defense against bear, as opposed to one for hunting bear. If my object was to locate and kill a brown bear, under a variety of conditions, I'd probably use my .375 H&H, or .35 Whelen. Each wears a good optical sight, and I'd be set to make a good shot out beyond 200 yards.

If just going about other business and wanting a defensive arm, I'd be more likely to carry my Marlin .45-70 Guide Gun or my 20" Remington 1100 loaded with Brenneke slugs. Each has iron sights, is lighter and more compact than the hunting guns, and can make repeat shots more quickly. And yes, I'd pack a heavy sidearm as well, if only for added confidence.

Disclaimer: The ONLY bear I ever killed was a large cinnamon black bear. It fell nicely to a single handloaded Sierra 165 gr. GameKing from my old Ruger .30'06.
 
I've always said I'd prefer my FAL for pure bear defense. 20 fast-firing 7.62 bullets sounds better to me than a few of those 3-400 grain pills.
 
Funny I'd rather have anything in semi-auto over a pump or lever action. I have a bad habit of jamming both up when I get in a hurry shooting...which I'd probably be in a hurry if a bear was coming in on me.
 
What about 5.56/223.......................j/k

You are all wrong you don't need a gun at all, just a fat friend that you can out run................................:)
 
An 870 stuffed with slugs! I respect the you-know-what out of those folks, so if that's what they rely on then to me that settles the debate!
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What Roklok already said, I believe -- AST issues shotguns (as does Anchorage PD and pretty much every other LE agency in the state), they don't issue 45-70s, 458s, 30-06s or whatever else. The shotgun is a nice, versatile weapon that, loaded with slugs, can add dangerous game protection to its resume. A 0.400"+ big bore hunting rifle isn't really a multi-trick pony.

If I'm not mistaken, the guy who teaches bear defense for the various federal agencies that have scientists and such out in the woods and bush up here is a big fan of 45-70 for bear defense, though they also primarily use 870s with slugs, because that's what the .gov bought for them for bear/moose defense.
 
always take a co-worker with you that cant run as fast as you, and hang a pork chop off the back of his rucksack when he isnt paying attention....you get a steadier shot that way.:D
 
12ga with slugs in 3" is going to cap around 3000 ft lbs of energy. A 45/70 with ammo designed for modern rifles can exceed this according to advertised data. I have recently seen a 3.5" slug round for the 12, with 3700 ft lbs of energy advertised. My shoulder hurts just thinking about it.

The 12 also has the advantage of being cheap, easy to find and arguably has more utility. If you're going into the woods sometimes it's nice to have birdshot and / or buckshot around.
 
I say lure them out in the open and hit 'em with the Hammer of Dawn... Seriously though, I'd take a 12ga loaded with Brenneke slugs.
 
In a close quarters defensive situation with a large grizzly intent on hurting you, you're likely to get only one shot to put it down.

If it doesn't go down and stay down, it will most likely pounce on you in an instant. So much for repeat shot capability then which only offers a false sense of security.

Maybe use a single shot whatever for the psychological advantage?? :D
 
I was born and raised in Alaska, in fact I'm a native

the most popular rifle caliber growing up was 30-06, everybody liked showing off their ought sixes and if they didn't have one to show off they sure had an 870 to show off, Wingmasters were popular but I always thought the barrels were too long
 
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