Best load for 25 auto???

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Dr.Rob

Staff Alumnus
OK we'd ALL RATHER CARRY a full sized 45 auto with all the bells and whistles.. BUT.. if all you could carry was a teeny-tiny 25 auto..

what on earth would you load it with??

Frangibles seem like a waste of time in such a tiny bullet and even FMJ doesn't penetrate that well.. what WOULD the best 25acp round be?? (And stay away from +p stuff please)

Any thoughts???


Dr.Rob
 
Since reliable functioning is priority #1 and sufficient penetration is priority #2 (at least in my humble opinion), I think I'd have to go with hardball -- round nose FMJ. I might consider something with a truncated cone bullet profile if it would feed reliably.

With the advent of tiny .32s, though, isn't the .25 effectively obsolete? I can't think of any current .25 ACP pistols that are smaller than the Kel-Tec P32.
 
I saw a recent test of two different .25 ACP loads. The Speer Gold Dot and the Hornady XTP were the ones tested. In the gelitan test, the Hornady was the only one to expand. This past holliday weekend, I loaded up my Beretta 950 (.25ACP version) with Hornady's 35 grain HP, and shot my old english literature book a couple of times. The bullet expanded fully almoast immediately, and penetrated a few more inches. I think it's rated MV out of a 2 inch barrel is 900fps. I'll correct it later if I'm wrong.

I'm sticking with the Hornady, based simply on the tests, and the fact that I've put several hundred rounds of the Hornady though the gun with ZERO problems. I'm really impressed with their bullet designs.

PS, I think the Beretta Jetfire 950 is even smaller than the Kel-Tec. 8+1 rounds of .25 is better than nothing. Besides, I'd take a reliable Beretta .25 over a questionable / fashionable Kel-Tec .32 any day of the week. It's the ultimate mouse gun, that looks really classy.

Ben

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AOL IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"

[This message has been edited by Ben (edited November 29, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Ben (edited November 29, 1999).]
 
I agree with Matt; the .25 is - or should be - obsolete. The only time I can even conceive of using a .25 for self-defense is
being within 10'and pumping 3 rounds into the
nose/eyes region of the face. Anywhere else
will allow the "target" to continue hostile activity.

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Stand against evil, lest evil have its way...
 
Dr. Rob,

Actually, I've often wondered why there weren't many (if any) +P rated loads for the .25 ACP. Since I don't reload I couldn't tell you. I'd put a Hornady +P in my Beretta if there was one.

Reloaders,
Is there not enough room left in the case for more powder in a .25 ACP, or is it already full? Why aren't there any +p .25ACP?

I know it's a useless cartridge, but I opted for the centerfire .25 ACP instead of the rifmfire 22 for reliability sake.

Why no +p in .25ACP?
Ben

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AOL IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
 
yes yes yes I KONW the .25 is a pipsqueak.. the question was IF YOU were carrying a .25 (no other calibers please) what load would you carry?

the pistol in question is a 1940 vintage colt vest pocket 25 auto and its about the size of a pack of smokes, it holds 6 rounds and the sights are rudimentary. NO you won't be shooting through car doors/windshields/cinderblocks etc. Just imagine its the ONLY gun you have access to. (and yes I have a 380, 9mm , 3 different 45's and a 44 mag). This is your back-up gun, the one you keep in your sock/underwear crack of your ass under your toupee etc.. what bullets do you load it with?

Dr.Rob
 
DR Rob,

You probably weren't referring to me in your last remarks. If you were, I told you that I keep mine loaded with Hornady 35 XTP because it was the only one to expand.

I just remembered that the test I was referring to also included a Winchester XP (hollow-point w/ ball). Both the Winchester and Speer GD bombed the test. Of the three tested, Hornady was the best... I'm trying to be clear.

Sheesh :)
Ben

I've never tried the COTA carrying method ;)
(Crack Of The Ass)
------------------
AOL IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"

[This message has been edited by Ben (edited November 29, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Ben (edited December 04, 1999).]
 
Best way to get maximum stopping power from the .25 ACP:

Fill the barrel and mag well with molten lead, let it cool, then use it as a projectile. Carry a knife for backup.

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"Put a rifle in the hands of a Subject, and he immediately becomes a Citizen." -- Jeff Cooper
 
The usually silly answers about .25's in this thread but the little .25 has killed plenty of people and in trained hands is quite lethal.

I've carried a Jetfire for deep cover for years and have always mixed hardball with Glasers. I have measured penetration in wood (soft) about 4" with hardball.

This is a gun and caliber that you generally need to use up close and personal, in the head, for it to be effective.

In your pistol, I'd stay with hardball and become proficient with it. BTW, these little pistols are really loud and probably would scare the pants off most people if fired at close range.
 
It never ceases to amaze me that when you ask a question about a caliber less than .45 you get all these know it alls coming out of the woodwork saying it is not a stopper. Let me tell you neither is your .45, 9mm,.380 unless you hit what your are shooting at. I will take a .25 auto anyday over a .45 if I can put 3 rounds in a 6" circle in less than one an a half seconds. Remember its not how big or how fast you miss, its where you put the lead. You may laugh at my next statement, but what do you think the most used hit weapon is. ready for the truth. A Ruger .22 auto. Because not only is it quiet that is only part of it. You can follow up shots with almost no recoil and put all your shots into a very small target. Remember most encounters are under 10'. My .02 cents worth. Unless you have been shot with a .25 don't tell me it is not a stopper if used properly.
 
Sorry, I know you said only 25s but I personally have a little 22 pistol I carry when there is no way to carry anything bigger. It's a Phoenix HP22 (they make a 25 too) and I have fired a bajillion rounds through it, and it's fairly reliable, no real kick, loud as a b@@ch, and I can blast off 10rds as fast as my finger moves and it's more accurate than any other gun I have when firing that fast.
Nice reliable gun. I personally prefer a 22 over 25, They go a little deeper. I have heard nothing bad about the 25 version either.
And now that I have rambled about some, I recommend ball ammo with anything smaller than 380, better chance of actually wounding the BG :)
Actually, having seen what a 25 does to the face of an unfortunate indivdual, I would not ever laugh if someone pulled one on me...
I'll take a 25 over a knife anyday.
 
A .25?
I'ld rather pack a .22 and load it with STINGERS.
A .32 is the other way to go...
But with guns like the G26-27 kahr MK9 MK40, Colt's Pocket Nine, Taurus PT 111 or the Kel Teks... I dont see any reason to go with a mouse gun of any type. You can at least have a full power 9mm.

------------------
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
Hey, have I mentioned my new book? It is called:
MEN ARE FROM MARS and WOMEN JUST NEED TO DEAL WITH IT!
 
Ok, now that ya'll have the jokes out of your system. I have and sometimes still do carry a .25 auto. I spent several years doing volunteer work where carrying a gun was a real no-no. My solution was a clone of the Baby Browning in .25acp. No, it wasn't my first choice, but under the circumstances it was about the only option. During that time I tried to read as much as I could find on the gun and loads for it. Now if you can believe the various gun writers, the .25 is more reliable than the .22 since it is a centerfire. Also .25s generally feed better than the rimmed .22. Bear in mind that this gun will only be used at near contact distances and the best target is the head/face which is protected by the skull. Feed reliability is more important that expansion. My load of choice is the Winchester 45 gr. Expanding point. The little steel ball stuck in the hollowpoint is there to insure feed reliability. After many years and over a thousand rounds through my little Baby clone, I've never once had a failure of any kind.
Make jokes and laugh all you want. I always felt well protected with that little gun. The first rule of gunfighting- Have a gun.
 
I have to confess... I was in the same boat many moons ago.
I had an Astra Cub in .25 ACP. This is what I carried since a gun was an instant termination. But I was working nights... and in the area I was in - felt that going unheeled was not an option.
I had it loaded with those little Winchester rounds too. 45 grains? I dont remember that - but it did have that little bb in the nose.
Nifty little pistol that took down faster than anything else... jacked the slide back, twist the barrel - and it was appart! just pull it out and ease the slide off.
As soon as I could I got a Fire Star .45 that I carried IWB and I felt much better.

------------------
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
Hey, have I mentioned my new book? It is called:
MEN ARE FROM MARS and WOMEN JUST NEED TO DEAL WITH IT!
 
Greetings Dr Rob,
Based soley on what I've read, if I could legally carry my Beretta 950 .25 ACP, it would probably be the 45-grain Winchester Expanding Point . It is standard pressure, should feed like FMJ, and might expand slightly while penetrating like a light weight HP of a much larger caliber. Like Ben, I remember reading the 35-grain Hornady XTP works well. I might at least load one in the chamber with the hope of greater expansion or "bite". The only +P I'm aware of is the 22-grain MagSafe Defender+P at 1610 fps. My own terminal ballistics experiments involved two cottontails with FMJ ammo. The results weren't encouraging. Sadly the HP rounds I just mentioned are probably little better. I would rather have a .25 ACP pistol with a couple mags of hardball than rely on my Tae Kwon Do training alone. I know that Marshall/Sanow stats are not always welcome. However, I like what they attempted to do. ( It is just what we do on this BB when we ask for the "real" experiences of other posters.) If any of their statistics are correct, it is those for the .25 ACP cartridge. They have more actual shootings with .25 than with all the .38 Specials and 9mm Parabellum combined. And it is the worst "stopper" at 22-25%. I enjoy reading your posts Dr. Rob and would like to know your choice of ammo and carry for the vest pocket pistols and how that little Colt of yours shoots. :)
 
I don't think the type of slug realy matters in this caliber. Just choice the load with the most kinetic energy, since bullets in this caliber do not expand.
 
Hi Dr. Rob,

The hardball round is the way to go. I also have a Beretta 950 and it gets the nod on occasion. I do not want the bullet to expand, just punch an icepick like hole in the target. If I could get a SWC I'd use that instead.

When I find some of the Hornady JHP stuff, I'll probably get a box and try them out. My thoughts there are that the profile of the bullet may give me better penetration on the skull. Right now it's "eyes and ears" for my targets.

For those that think the .25 is a puffed up BB gun - it kills a lot of folks down here. My wife's home town has had three one shot stops/kills in the last year with .25's. One of the Shift Commanders is my bro-in-law. The ammo used in all three was the CCI Blazer rounds. (Wal-Mart sells it there)

giz

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Vote Democratic! 1 Billion Chinese can't be wrong......
 
I learned a lot from everyone's posts... that's why I enjoy this forum...

OK... related question... if you WERE going to buy a .25 semi-auto... which weapon would it be? I feel that reliability would be the #1 factor, Accuracy, #2.

------------------
Stand against evil, lest evil have its way...
 
If I was going to buy another .25?

Astra Cub again. Its smaller than small and for 50 bucks... hey - why not?

------------------
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
Hey - have you seen the new Ultimate Super Tactical Match Gun?
 
Unless I could find one that was very high capacity - and fully automatic...
A .25 may not be much - but 30 rounds of it will do the job.

------------------
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
Hey - have you seen the new Ultimate Super Tactical Match Gun?
 
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