best j-frame ammo?

snubs

I think there is only so much horsepower you can squeeze out of a little snub before it becomes uncontrollable, unpleasant, or too dangerous. If you want to practice alot with mags in a snub, more power to you, but I accept the limitations of the common 38 loads in that gun, and expect to get something bigger if I need more oomph. Still wondering about the magic 38s like the Glaser, thunder zap, etc. Too expensive to practice with so you have to take someone elses word for it. When they get the magic bullet and can prove it to me I will buy it.
 
As a newbie, let me get this straight...is it true to say that most of you would not enjoy using .357 rounds in a m60 or similar sized gun? Would an sp101 (I want a 3", whatever it is) be enough of a step up?
 
"As a newbie, let me get this straight...is it true to say that most of you would not enjoy using .357 rounds in a m60 or similar sized gun?"

That's about the size of it, all right. While there are .357 Mag J Frames, that doesn't mean that .357 Mags are pleasant to shoot in them. I'd say that basic marksmanship practice would be better shot with light .38 spl wadcutters. I'm not saying that you shouldn't practice with .357 Mag loads assuming that you are going to carry them, but I would rather just shoot them every now and then in a familiarization sense -- just enough to know where they print and to let you know what to expect should you actually have to use them in a SD situation. Every now and then you'll want to fire them in a "SD simulation" sense, where you fire them in a rapid manner, so that you can get used to controlling the weapon in order for effective follow-up shots -- not a pleasant proposition, but a necessary drill nonetheless.

"Would an sp101 (I want a 3", whatever it is) be enough of a step up?"

Better, but still not real pleasant. A 3" Model 60 is listed at 24 oz, a 3" SP101 is listed at 27 oz. Those extra ounces help, but you can still see that it isn't a real great improvement. For comparison purposes, a 4" 686 is currently listed at 40 oz. Full power .357 Mags out of my 4" 686 (a much older model, though) are not unpleasant at all. The extra barrel length and weight make the Mag loads much milder to the shooter. Unfortunately, the extra barrel length and weight also make it considerably less than optimum for concealed carry. In other words, heavier revolvers like the L frame S&Ws and the GP-100 series Rugers can handle steady diets of magnum loads without overly stressing the guns or the shooters. But then again, you trade off concealablity when you do that. Apples and oranges. If you want pleasant magnum shooting, you'll have to get a heavier gun. If you want concealability, you may be able to shoot magnums but they won't be pleasant. There's no free lunch here.
 
I see - well I dont intend to use .357's in anything more than occasional practise (like you say, so I am ready for the blast/recoil/shot placement). The .38's some of you mentioned will be all i want to use 90% of the time. If you guys think I can learn to accurately fire 125grain .357 rounds without damaging my (soon to be) shiny new m60, then I'll get my checkbook out :)
About the sp101, I keep getting drawn to it because of the price tag and the famed reliability, but the m60 has the looks and the feel :cool:
 
"The M60 with .38 +P ammo will serve you well."

Agreed. That combo should be effective, and still be easier to control and more pleasant to shoot than the same gun with .357 Mags. The old tried and true "FBI Load": .38spl +P 158gr LSWCHP or that new .38spl +P 135gr GDHP load should due the trick. I'd still do the bulk of practicing with lighter .38 spl loads, if it were me. For that matter, the SP101 loaded with the same fodder would be effective, too.
 
.357 for Bear

Had a recent CPR/First Responder Class recently where Instructor (EMT/PM with 20+ years experience) was teaching class to some commercial fisherman. One student asked if he should carry .357 in case he had an encounter with a bear on shore. One of other students was AK St Police and said he should grind off Front Sight Assembly. Orginal student asked why? LEO replied, "...it will hurt less when the Bear shoves it up your a!?!..."
 
hmmm, even with .357mag? I guess i should hav mentioned i had a .357mag j-frame in mind with this. I'd expected everyone to suggest some kind of .38+p for range and 2legs, and maybe a .357 for 4legs? Iknow, I shouldn't be trying to do it all with one weapon, but my wallet dictates otherwise
Click to expand...

You have the .357mag j-frame in mind? Do you have one or do you plan to get one?

I ask, because if you need to find a "one gun fits all" sitiuation for a while, I don't think the J-frame is the best choice. If you don't already own it, you may want to consider something else.

First, if you don't have a lot of revolver experience it is not the best place to start. Recoil out of a J-frame snub can be a bit much for many people, even with .38+P. It is better to build your way up to it. Also, a 2" J-frame snub is one of the hardest guns to become proficient with, many people have trouble getting accuracy down with these so practice is important (and with the recoil many don't want to do the practice).

Second, while a great concealment weapon, it is niche specific and not nearly as good for other needs. The short sight radius and small size means it is harder to aim well under stress. The lightweight limits the power of ammo you'll be able to really handle (limiting you in "critter" defense). Also, the recoil will limit your range time which you need to get good with it.

Last, there are much better options for a "one gun for all options" kind of gun.

If you haven't already bought your gun I'd strongly suggest a K-frame S&W, Taurus or a used Ruger Security Six/Speed Six (the new GP100 is a bit big). In a 2 1/2" or 3" barrel these guns are highly concealable and quite handy and pointable and just light enough for comfortable OWB or IWB concealment. They are a bit heftier and heavier so they can handle much more powerful ammo (.357mag loads are pretty comfortable in my 3" S&W 65LS) and you will find it easier to spend more time at the range practicing. Heck, many/most people can conceal a 4" K-frame pretty easily (especially IWB). The only real disadvantage v. the J-frame is they aren't "deep concealment guns" so no pants pockets and other than the 2 1/2" (maybe the 3") probably no ankle carry.

If you are set on a 2" J-frame sized gun I'd strongly suggest the Ruger SP101 as it is heavier than the Taurus and S&W version. It is only 1oz heavier than the Taurus and 2oz heavier than the S&W, but this light that little numerical difference makes a huge practical difference. Many people consider this the minimum gun if you are going to actually try to shoot magnums out of it.

As for loads-

Practice- Occasionally use the carry load, but most practice is wadcutters, reloads (my own) and/or the cheapest FMJ I can find (usually WWB).

Home defense/CCW- With a 2" J-frame sized snub you are best off with LSWC-HP (lead semi-wadcutter hollow points), or one of the newer JHPs that have good results with snubs (like the 135gr Speer Gold Dot). I prefer .38+P over .357mag for defense (quicker follow up shots, lower noise and less flash). With a 2 1/2" or 3" K-frame you have a little more flexibility, though I usually go with the same selections. With a 4" K-frame you could use pretty much any quality HP you want.

Animal defense/hunting- A 158gr, .357mag JSP or hardcast lead. However, the recoil of these in a 2" J-frame will be much too stout (you may barely be able to handle them in a Ruger SP101, they'll be stout but fine in a K-frame).
 
Thanks for the reply, and thanks for taking the time to spell stuff out to me. I'd love to have a 3" m66 - that would be my ideal gun, but I am reluctant to buy used when I dont know what to look for (wear, damage etc). Thats why i went down to a 3" m60 or a 3" sp101, but you are telling me what i expected - that the m60 is not ideal for my purposes :( Back to the catalogues I guess
 
ammunition suggestion

I have just discovered that the PMC 125gn starfire 38spl+p is an excellent load for the 357 snub. It has low recoil and good ballistics. It's also cheap.And I've tried alot
recently. (about 10 different loads including the FBI load)
 
If you are going to carry this revolver on your belt and shoot/carry .357 loads in it, I would go with the Ruger SP-101 in a heartbeat. It was designed form the ground up as a .357 j-class revo. the model 60 was originally designed for .38 spl. and has been re-chambered in .357.

Personally, I would look for a Taurus 2" in .45 Colt. They are about the same size as an L-frame, hold 5 rounds of a very potent caliber and you can always shoot .45 Colt Cowboy Action loads for low-recoil practice. Not perfect 4-legged critter medicine, but better ( in most people's opinions) than a .357 j-frame that is near-uncontrollable in a high stress encounter if the .45 Colt is loaded correctly.

Just my opinion
W
 
Thanks for the reply, and thanks for taking the time to spell stuff out to me. I'd love to have a 3" m66 - that would be my ideal gun, but I am reluctant to buy used when I dont know what to look for (wear, damage etc). Thats why i went down to a 3" m60 or a 3" sp101, but you are telling me what i expected - that the m60 is not ideal for my purposes Back to the catalogues I guess
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be so afraid of a used revolver. Personally, I trust them more than used semis (I have had many used revolvers, including my first gun, I don't have any used autos).

To give some peace of mind, look up Jim March's revolver check out. In case you can't find it (it is several years old) it is "stickied" on The High Road ( http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=1430 ).

If after reading that you still want to go new, you can still possibly find a 2 1/2" S&W 66 or 3" S&W 65LS at dealers (and if you can't, maybe your dealers' distributors may still have some). Barring that, you may be able to get by for concealment with the slightly larger 2 1/2" L-frame (S&W 686) or 3" Ruger GP100. If you can't find a new K-frame that fits your needs anymore (terrible for S&W to discontinue them), and if the L-frame and GP100 are too big (probably are), your best new bet is probably a 3" Ruger SP101 as it is the most hefty of the J-framed sized guns. Second choice would be the 28oz Taurus 617, a 2", 7 shot "compact" framed .357 snub (the Taurus compact frame seems to be nearly the size of the S&W K-frame but a little lighter).

Another alternative that can handle defense and woods use (since someone mentioned the Taurus 450, a 2" .45LC) is the Taurus 415, a 2 1/2" .41mag. I don't think the Taurus 450 is meant to be used with the stronger loadings you need for "woods" use. Meanwhile the 415 works with pretty much any .41mag loading. The only problem is there are no cheap practice load made (you will need to reload) and for defense you can't get good loads at just any gun store, you'll probably need to buy online or reload.
 
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