Best defensive .45 under $800?

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Brad

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Although I own several handguns, I don't feel that they provide the reliability and/or the versatility of a good defensive pistol. I have a 1911 Springfield that I enjoy at the range, but it occassionaly fails on me and hasn't instilled the requisite confidence in a my-life-could-depend-on-it weapon. I'm also leery of spending another $400-500 on reliability modifications for this handgun. Because even if I did, I'm not sure I could completely trust it anyway.

The other gun I own that could be a candidate is a 9mm Beretta Cougar. While it's a nice weapon, I suscribe to the theory that the caliber in a defensive pistol should be the one you are most capable of handling well. For me, that seems to be a .45. While I haven't counted out a .40 S&W, I don't know why I would want to choose a smaller caliber in the gun that could ultimately save my life.

I've noticed on this board that there are many experienced handgunners who understand the characteristics of a good defensive pistol. I would appreciate your advice on the weapons you think I should consider and why. On a final note, even though I'm 6' and 200lbs+ I have medium to small hands. This eliminates some Glock considerations (unlesss Robarized, something that doesn't appeal to me much) and other larger weapons like the HK Tactical or high capaciity versions of the 1911 (ala Kimber).

This is a purchase I'm hoping to make soon and would welcome your advice. Thanks!
 
My personal carry gun is a Glock 20 (10mm) so, you can figure out what my first choice is ;)

From what I read in your post, you are looking for specifically, a single stack 45 of some kind. In an economy gun, that means KIMBER to me. Take what ever money you have left over from the purchase and break it in, completely (>500 rounds).

If you open your sights a little, the 357SIG seems to be gaining favor with police in general. In fact, Texas DPS switched from SIG 220's in 45ACP to 226/229 in 357SIG. You get 357magnum ballistics in an autoloader. My personal pick of the litter is a Glock 31.

In the end, get a gun YOU can use effectively. 9mm's do work in real life. Low recoil allows faster follow up shots and, with hi-cap mags you get a lot of them. A single trigger stoke is easier to master then two different strokes so, that tends to make me favor either a single action (1911 or Hi-Power) or a Glock.

Sid
 
I went through a similar decision making process recently. I had been carrying a Kel-Tec P-40 which had a number of feeding problems and I was unable to feel comfortable with it. I also had a Charles Daly .45 (1911) which I liked alot and used it to shoot pins at the local range. I liked the caliber but wasn't comfortable carrying it defensively. Cocked and locked makes me nervous and racking the slide in an emergency seemed like too many steps. I wanted a heavy caliber DA pistol and started looking at Sigs. I had pretty much settled on a P239 in .40 S&W but when I got to the store they didn't have any. They did have a P245 which is Sig's new .45ACP compact pistol. It seemed to fit the bill for me. A highly dependable carry weapon that I can still use for competitive shooting. I have seen this pistol sold for as high as $775 but a more likely price here in the Atlanta area is $589 which puts it nicely in your price range. Like all Sigs, it is very well built, feels great in the hand, hits where it points and I am sure it will go bang if I need it. Hope this helps. Let us all know what you decide.

Dave Ebdon
 
I love the one I have right now. It's a Ruger P97 with decocker. This is a straight forward 45 ACP and is very accurate. Recoil is suprisingly low which means quick reacquisition of the target. It comes with two 8 rnd mags. The gun weighs in at 27 ounce so it's pretty light compared to most. Combat sights (3 dot) with rear windage adjust. This gun is very simple to field strip. After one time you can do it with your eyes closed. The chamber has a nice big polished ramp so feeding this thing big mouth hallow points is not a problem. I rapid fired 20 rds of Cor-Bon 200+P and it launched every round. Here's the best part...
It cost only $460 retail ( I paid $370).
Put a slip on Hogue grip and this gun is ready for action.

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"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16
 
BRAD - Try a model 30 GLOCK,before you buy any thing.It develops confidence immediatly with its soft recoil,and accurate bullet placement.Care is a dream. No rust,2 drops of oil to lube it, and a frame that is almost indestructable.It looks like h**l but you get to love it after a while.
 
I feel your best bet is a Para-Ordnance if they don't feel to big for your hands (shouldn't). If so, then go with a Kimber. Both these brands will give you total reliability, accuracy and functioning right out of the box!
 
I have small hands w/ long fingers, and I carry a glock 20 w/o much incident. A 1911 is more comfortable, but that reliability issue makes Glock the no brainer. It is easy to get a loose 1911 to feed ball, but HPs are tricky, even in something like a kimber. I am sold on a glock 30 for a carry gun in .45 and will get one about 2-3 guns from now.
 
Hi Brad, I think the SIG (either in .45) wpuld make you a happy camper. Obviouly the smaller one would be eaiser for CC, but I have carried my 220 in a Summer Special.

You might want to try a Glock M30. I also have small hands and the bigger Glocks and H&K USPs are uncomfortable - but (!) I shoot them very well.. Something about the performance being more important than the perception..

I do like my 1911s but they can be troublesome. I understand completely about the jamming thing. I simply will not tolerate it in a defensive pistol and I am very unhappy with it in anything else..

Giz

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"Shoot low boys, they're riding Shetland ponies..." LG, RIP
 
Buy a used COLT Gummint Model in .45 or Super 38. Save a couple hundred $$$ and invest it in ammunition. Fire that bugger until you become its master. It has to learn to respect you :) It will never let you down. OTOH, you can buy a small Glock like the Model 27 in 40 S&W. That will also do it. But for the .45, accept no other than COLT (used).

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Yankee Doodle
 
I'm inclined just to say: "I agree with BigG," but I do have a couple of additional comments. The best .45's are Colt made 1911's, prewar, wartime (US Govt property, most likely purchased under the old DCM/NRA program) or commercials from the 50's, 60's and early 70's, before they started fooling with the design. Trying to find a good one of these that the owner is willing to part with is a hard job, but worth the trouble. If you simply must have a new gun, the Gunsite GSP, based on a Springfield forged platform, is the most reliable defensive 1911 you can get today: everything you need, and nothing you don't. I laugh when I read posts complaining about the 1911's 'antiquity' and 'lack of reliability. Get one built to the original specs, minus the bells and whistles, and you won't have any complaints.

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An armed man is a citizen; an unarmed man is a subject; a disarmed man is a slave.
 
I own and use on duty a PARA ORDANANCE P-14 "LIMITED",IN 45ACP. - ALSO HAVE A H&K USP [VARIANT#1] IN 45ACP. BOTH THESE WEAPONS ARE RELIABLE, ACCUARTE, AND BOTH CAN BE HAD FOR UNDER 800.00$. CAN'T GO WRONG WITH EITHER OF THESE PISTOLS. 12-34HOM. - OUT.
 
I've only owned current issue Colts, but if you find one of these, run don't walk. I'm sorry for every Colt I own w/ some exception for my Python. The name means nothing now and shoouldn't be confused w/ past glory.
 
I guess Im just out of the loop....but I still prefer the 1911's......and I prefer colt's, I just recently purchased a s/s combat commander and at the same shop they also have a recent purchase nickeled combat commander with minor modifications,...they want $475 for it. Ive yet to find what ya'll are talking about with the so called quality control problem......I usually do the same modifications to the colts, but the box stock pistol's shoot fine.........
I also have short fingers on a fat hand and I would recommend that you also evaluate a 40s/w in hi-power configuration---a good pistol, it should fit your hand size requirements, and the pistol is slim enuf to allow you to conceal easy and holds 10rds.....check them out, if you cannot live with the trigger have a competent gunsmith, go through it and include the magazines that will be carried as the mags will need to be polished were the mag safety rubs.........
If it was me Id just take the springfield to a competent smith and tell him your concerns and then spend the time putting 500-1000rds through the pistol until your sure that the pistol will be reliable.....but im also for any excuse to buy a new gun...lol...fubsy.
 
When in uniform, I carry a Sig P220.

If I had to shoot someone and have my gun confiscated, I'd go with a Ruger P97. Don't cost as much as a precious Kimber.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
There are many variants of the HK USP in .45.
All can be had for under 800. Full sized, or Compact, the USP is a GREAT .45 Shooter - Capable of firing the tremendous .45 SUPER.

You cant get a better gun for the money.

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Every man Dies.
Not Every Man Truely Lives...

FREEDOM!

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
For about 500-600 Dollars the Glock Model 30 is the most dependably functioning .45 I have ever owned and I've owned a few. I also like my Kimber Compact Custom Stainless. If I was going to bet my life on one it would be the Glock.

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"GottaShoot30, GottaShoot27, GottaShoot23, GottaShootKimber - I just wish I had more time"
 
COLT QUALITY CONTROL



DS-II



Firing pin breaks at 200 rounds



return gun



get gun back



gun breaks trigger spring



order part



get part



cylinder locks up off center



bolt/foot drags against cylinder



local gunsmith fixes



trigger spring breaks



wait three months for spring



call colt



wait some more



Python



Shoot 50 rounds



cylinder has deep nick at rear edge



ejector rod freezes in place



grip cracked



return gun



get gun back, cylinder still nicked



return gun



cylinder replaced, finally



firing pin now sticks



notice rear sight installed at an angle



Mediocre quality for what I paid ($750)



Gold Cup



Left side flat on slide is milled .060 taller than right side



Right side corner rounded off



Barrel throat job from factory has deep nicks and machining marks (kinda defeats the purpose of throating, don't you think)



Ramp has machining marks



Trigger sucks (on an $1150 list gun????)



Mediocre quality for what I paid ($850 out the door)



Any questions?



[This message has been edited by B Shipley (edited June 30, 1999).]
 
Brad,

In a .45, I would go with either a Glock or HK USP if you are looking for out of the box reliability and durability... The G21 and G30 are both fine guns and would most likely suit your needs. The USP .45 is also a tremendous gun and works great for me. But if the grip size is too big on the G21, G30 and USP .45, how about trying Glock's new G36? This is basically a single stack version of the G30. Or you could try the Compact USP .45, which also has a smaller grip than the full size USP.

If you want to go with a double action single stack, the Sig 220 has garnered a very good reputation as well... Try them all out and see what gun fits your hand the best... Good luck...
 
b. shipley,
no kidding, you had all those problems...unreal. Ive purchased three colt 1911's (only colts I like, dont care for pythons, Defective special I could take it or leave it, and that was after a dehorning, triggerjob (by a qualified smith), and bobbing the hammer.....not one of the colts from the 1991-a1, and the commander, and the enhanced model, ....not one problem, not even a blemish..........Ill stick with the colt 1911's, and if ya'll dont buy em thats just more for me.....fubsy.
 
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