Best caliber handgun for home defence?
- Thread starter BNOBrien
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Catfishman
New member
Single Six: I'll make your point for you. I once shot a buck and the bullet wounded a doe on the other side of it.
That said, it's a freak occurance. I've never heard of anyone shooting a bad guy and the bullet passing through them and killing a loved one. I have heard of someone shooting a bad guy, not killing him outright and the bad guy went on to kill others. I've also heard of a man emptying his revolver in a gunfight only to get executed by a man with a high capacity semi-auto.
That said, it's a freak occurance. I've never heard of anyone shooting a bad guy and the bullet passing through them and killing a loved one. I have heard of someone shooting a bad guy, not killing him outright and the bad guy went on to kill others. I've also heard of a man emptying his revolver in a gunfight only to get executed by a man with a high capacity semi-auto.
Single Six
New member
Catfishman: Agreed, it's a freak occurrence. The odds of it actually happening are probably pretty low. But just because you've not heard of an incident where an over-penetrating bullet went through a BG and killed someone else doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Or that it can't happen. Of course, like I mentioned earlier, it could happen with most any bullet, but it's what hollow points are intended to prevent, anyway. Meanwhile, you raise another interesting point about the limited capacity of revolvers; kind of alarming, since I carry a revolver! But, that's a different topic and we're already straying from the OP's original question, so I'll hush now. 
My favorites are 9mm and 45 ACP. But I sometimes have .38 on hand. I think
.45 ACP hollowpoints are least likely to penetrate walls. They are a big heavy bullet flying at lower velocities. Compared to 9mm, I think it is more likely to stop an attacker and less likely to overpenetrate. Not a big fan of the .40 for home defense due to recoil and overpenetration. Just my opinion.
.45 ACP hollowpoints are least likely to penetrate walls. They are a big heavy bullet flying at lower velocities. Compared to 9mm, I think it is more likely to stop an attacker and less likely to overpenetrate. Not a big fan of the .40 for home defense due to recoil and overpenetration. Just my opinion.
Once you accept that all defensive handgun cartridges are under powered, you then choose one which you can competently handle in a defensive scenario. Assuming that any of the defensive handgun cartridges are up to the task of quickly incapacitating the threat, your job is to practice to balance speed and accuracy.
You must hit your target.
Don't be concerned with over penetration. Missing is much more of a concern that over penetration. Unfortunately most rounds fired in a defensive situation miss the target. You would do better to find what works for you, to hit your target center of mass as quickly as possible with a reasonably powerful round.
The chance of a center of mass hit with a well designed hollow point bullet penetrating the body of an attacker (since they are designed to expand and stop inside the target) and hitting an innocent is very small. Each bullet fired which misses the attacker is many times more likely to hit someone unintended.
As to hollow point bullets, they are several manufactures who produce excellent hollow point bullets in 9mm, .38 spl, .357 mag, .357 Sig, .40 S&W, 10mm auto, 41 mag. (not a maximum load), 44spl, .45 Colt, .45 acp, .45 Gap; such as Speer, Federal, and Winchester. [This is a partial list of cartridges that I personally would feel to be adequate for personal self defense]
I'm sure that is not an exhaustive list of manufacturers with good hollow point bullets.
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Clifford L. Hughes
New member
Clifford L. Hughes
BNObrien:
I have never shot a large animal with any pistol caliber except the .45 ACP. I was hunting with dogs and they jumped a large wild boar. I shot it at point blank range with a .45 cal. Hornady 200 gr. XTP bullet loaded to 1020 fps. The bullet entered in front of the boar's shoulder and traveled diagnoaly for about ten or twelve inches through tough neck muscle taking out three inches of neck bone along the way. The bullet lodged under the ear and behind the jaw on the off side stopped just under the skin.
Semper Fi.
Gunnery sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired
BNObrien:
I have never shot a large animal with any pistol caliber except the .45 ACP. I was hunting with dogs and they jumped a large wild boar. I shot it at point blank range with a .45 cal. Hornady 200 gr. XTP bullet loaded to 1020 fps. The bullet entered in front of the boar's shoulder and traveled diagnoaly for about ten or twelve inches through tough neck muscle taking out three inches of neck bone along the way. The bullet lodged under the ear and behind the jaw on the off side stopped just under the skin.
Semper Fi.
Gunnery sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired
Ok all good info. I go out to my shooting area as often as i can to work on staying on target, which is not work at all since its very enjoyable to shoot both of these pistols. So what i am gathering from you all is that a well placed hollow point is the way to go. A hollow point should hit the thug breaking into my home and expand and stop inside of him. So practice practice practice. I live in an apartment so i worry about shooting through a wall. maybe i should see about a shot gun for my home defence weapon.
Vt.birdhunter
New member
Even if the first thing you grab is your .45, you should be using it to get to a shotgun.
Pistols are for fighting your way to a long arm whenever you have the option. Dont be outgunned.
100 years
For what its worth, I belive that 100 years for the 1911 has spoke for its self. I do belive the cal. isn't as important as paintents to be able to do the best bullet placement. I love the 45, it will be my next gun. Right now i use a 40s&w and also my wife does. Sometimes i carry a 380. it is for the lighter weight and to just run short erronds.
For what its worth, I belive that 100 years for the 1911 has spoke for its self. I do belive the cal. isn't as important as paintents to be able to do the best bullet placement. I love the 45, it will be my next gun. Right now i use a 40s&w and also my wife does. Sometimes i carry a 380. it is for the lighter weight and to just run short erronds.
12ga/20ga, $300 pump Loaded with Low recoil 2 3/4 00 buck.
Guaranteed to make bad guys have a bad day.
Also makes a nice bat if you run out of ammo
I know, I know he said handgun caliber, but man you got a whole closet to CCW in
why use a handgun?
My buddy had an old billy club that had a steel tube down the middle that was chambered for 20ga. He was a real nut for antique LE stuff.
You pulled back the wrist strap and let go to shoot it...I watched him shoot it for the first time right after he got it...damn near broke his wrist, but I guess that counts as a handgun. Has not been shot in some time lol.
Guaranteed to make bad guys have a bad day.
Also makes a nice bat if you run out of ammo
I know, I know he said handgun caliber, but man you got a whole closet to CCW in
why use a handgun?My buddy had an old billy club that had a steel tube down the middle that was chambered for 20ga. He was a real nut for antique LE stuff.
You pulled back the wrist strap and let go to shoot it...I watched him shoot it for the first time right after he got it...damn near broke his wrist, but I guess that counts as a handgun. Has not been shot in some time lol.
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Tactical Jackalope
New member
Thank you...People look way into the minimal details.
Study human anatomy and physiology in detail. When you get an understanding of it, you will see how impossible it is to call any common SD caliber/round better than another. No, .45 is NOT a better stopper than the 9mm...only in gun shops and on the internet is that a fact. True stopping ability (defined as a high probability of discontinuing the attack in a very short time, like minutes or less) is only possible with proper shot placement and penetration. This is proven all across the country daily in hospitals and urgent care centers. Caliber of your weapon is one of the last things you should consider.
The fact is some bullets are larger than others, some are heavier, etc. This does not create a significant increase in damage when looking at the big picture, though. The most important things you should consider are:
- your accuracy with the weapon
- the ability to reliably penetrate enough to hit vitals from multiple angles (anything .380 and up can do this, BTW)
The rest is splitting hairs about something that is practically meaningless. Shoot what you like, know it will work as well as anything else, and be happy.
The fact is some bullets are larger than others, some are heavier, etc. This does not create a significant increase in damage when looking at the big picture, though. The most important things you should consider are:
- your accuracy with the weapon
- the ability to reliably penetrate enough to hit vitals from multiple angles (anything .380 and up can do this, BTW)
The rest is splitting hairs about something that is practically meaningless. Shoot what you like, know it will work as well as anything else, and be happy.
I disagree with this and so do police reports. One will kill someone just as dead as another but self defense is not about killing the person posing a threat, it is about stopping them quickly. There is a big difference in the amount of damage done by a hollow point at high velocity and a fmj at low velocity. This really isn't even debatable. I agree that shot placement is the biggest factor but some rounds absolutely do more damage than others.
I worked as an LEO for two different departments. No police report I've seen goes into any detail on the exact cause of death, or the reason for stopping, if death did not occur. Sorry, but it's not in the scope of any LE agency to figure out what made the stop...it's a medical issue, and the department defers to medical personnel for the answer.
As for comparing your rounds, its true a small FMJ will do less damage than a large, hunting JHP at twice the velocity. This was not part of the issue at hand, so you are correct...it's not debatable in this context. It can be said that a good, solid hit in a vital area with a .32 FMJ is superior to a non-vital strike with a .44 Spl JHP. That's another issue altogether. In the context of the issue at hand, a 9mm JHP made cheaply by Winchester in their USA bulk line will work as well as a .45 ACP Gold Dot, WIN Ranger, or any other round that is known as premium. Again, human A&P, medical science, and everything else observed about shootings since shootings began prove this. Police reports do not even touch this.
Yes, it is about stopping someone quickly, but any stop NOT created by the round disabling the subject physically is a psychological stop, created by the person's lack of will power to continue. When people do not give up, due to drugs, rage, etc., you see these cases on the news. They are the ones who take magazines full of ammo (of all calibers) before they quit. It's all a HUGE gamble on someone's part to think people will quit attacking when shot, because you have no idea who you are fighting, and what they are capable of doing.
Look up (to the extent you can) actual cases where it was determined how the shot ended the fight. You will see it is totally independent of caliber, power, etc. It is almost always related to direct tissue destruction caused by the main path of the bullet. Those other effects, such as cavitation, are secondary wounding factors, and will cause damage that is realized over time, but not immediately. IOW, the large rounds might cause incapacitation faster than smaller ones, but it will take a long time...time you don't have.
For a handgun to be used strictly for home defense, I consider the following to be ideal: a full-sized all-steel gun (easier to shoot accurately with less recoil), a medium length barrel for increased velocity and longer sight radius but not so long as to be a disadvantage in weapon retention (I consider 3-4" for a revolver and 4-5" for a semi-auto ideal), chambered for the most powerful cartridge that you can both shoot quickly and accurately and find good-quality JHP ammunition for (I consider any cartridge between .38 Special/9mm and .44 Magnum/.45 Long Colt "+P" to be in the ideal range), as reliable as humanly possible, and one you have practiced enough with to be able to manipulate the controls when half-asleep in the dark.
As far as caliber is concerned, I don't view deep penetration as a disadvantage. The FBI's penetration standards are 12-16" in ballistic gelatin. That degree of penetration is deemed necessary in order to ensure that the bullet will penetrate deeply enough to reach the vitals of a very large attacker, one shot at an oblique angle, or one shot through an intermediate barrier or extremity (arms, legs, etc.). In a straight-on frontal shot, any cartridge which meets a minimum of 12" penetration has the potential to travel completely through the upper torso of an average sized adult man. Also, just about any centerfire handgun will have sufficient penetration to go throught he interior walls of most homes unless it is loaded with frangible ammunition.
Personally, I am much more concerned about underpenetration than I am with overpenetration. Overpenetration is an issue best addressed, I believe, with tactics rather than ammunition. One should try, if at all possible, to take a shot that minimizes the risk of overpenetration to everyone else in the house. You should carefully consider the layout of your home and the most likely points of entry for an intruder and then do your best to take a position that gives you a field of fire that is unlikely to include your loved ones. Also, so long as there is no one on a floor above you, going prone or taking a knee before shooting is a good tactic to minimize the risk of overpenetration. Frangible ammo typically penetrates very shallowly and cannot be counted on to deliver enough penetration in all circumstances. Tactics can be adjusted in the heat of the moment much more easily than ammunition can.
As far as specific calibers are concerned, I have very specific reasons for what I favor. .38 Special and 9mm are about the smallest cartridges for which I can readily find JHP ammunition which both expands reliably and penetrates adequately. Many of the smaller cartridges like .22LR, .25 ACP, .32 ACP, and .380 ACP often suffer from JHP loadings that either cannot expand reliably at the lower velocities these cartridges typically generate or are loaded with such light bullets to ensure expansion that they penetrate shallowly. I also do not favor cartridges larger than .44 Magnum or .45 Long Colt because these seem to be about the two largest cartridges in which you can readily find JHP ammunition that will expand reliably within 12-16" of penetration. The problem that the big "monster magnum" handgun cartridges have is that they are primarily designed for hunting and as such use bullets that are designed for extremely deep penetration with very moderate expansion.
I am not as concerned with muzzle blast as many others seem to be because nearly any handgun will cause permanent hearing damage if fired without protection. You're not really "saving" your ears by using a less powerful cartridge and the difference between most handgun cartridges is not likely to be enough to cause a marked long-term difference from a cylinder or magazine full of rounds fired without protection. Also, auditory exclusion will usually keep someone from being immediately deafened from firing a handgun in an emergency although it will not save them from permanent hearing damage.
Capacity is also an attribute which I do not place great emphasis upon when selecting a home defense handgun. A handgun, to me, is a weapon to be used at very close ranges when a more substantial firearm is unavailable. A handgun, regardless of its capacity, is unlikely to be sufficient armament for multiple attackers who are dedicated enough to brave gunfire. If I have a problem in my home that cannot be solved by a revolver or single-stack semi-auto, then it is time for me to reach for either the pump-action shotgun or more likely the semi-automatic rifle that I also keep at the ready for HD.
As far as specific models of gun, caliber, and loadings, my HD handgun changes periodically but most frequently it is my 4" barrel S&W 629 loaded with Speer .44 Magnum 240grn Gold Dot JHP. I also keep a 20" barrel Remington 870 Express Magnum loaded with Remington 3" #4 Buckshot and a 922r-converted Saiga .223 rifle loaded with a 20-round magazine full of Winchester 45grn JHP at the ready.
In your case, I think you are well-armed with your .45 ACP loaded with premium JHP ammunition. One of the nice things about a .45 ACP is that nearly any good JHP in the 185-230grn range seems to give at least adequate performance. My personal loading of choice in that particular caliber is Federal HST 230grn +P, but I would not hesitate to use a different brand of ammo if the HST was not easily available to me.
As far as caliber is concerned, I don't view deep penetration as a disadvantage. The FBI's penetration standards are 12-16" in ballistic gelatin. That degree of penetration is deemed necessary in order to ensure that the bullet will penetrate deeply enough to reach the vitals of a very large attacker, one shot at an oblique angle, or one shot through an intermediate barrier or extremity (arms, legs, etc.). In a straight-on frontal shot, any cartridge which meets a minimum of 12" penetration has the potential to travel completely through the upper torso of an average sized adult man. Also, just about any centerfire handgun will have sufficient penetration to go throught he interior walls of most homes unless it is loaded with frangible ammunition.
Personally, I am much more concerned about underpenetration than I am with overpenetration. Overpenetration is an issue best addressed, I believe, with tactics rather than ammunition. One should try, if at all possible, to take a shot that minimizes the risk of overpenetration to everyone else in the house. You should carefully consider the layout of your home and the most likely points of entry for an intruder and then do your best to take a position that gives you a field of fire that is unlikely to include your loved ones. Also, so long as there is no one on a floor above you, going prone or taking a knee before shooting is a good tactic to minimize the risk of overpenetration. Frangible ammo typically penetrates very shallowly and cannot be counted on to deliver enough penetration in all circumstances. Tactics can be adjusted in the heat of the moment much more easily than ammunition can.
As far as specific calibers are concerned, I have very specific reasons for what I favor. .38 Special and 9mm are about the smallest cartridges for which I can readily find JHP ammunition which both expands reliably and penetrates adequately. Many of the smaller cartridges like .22LR, .25 ACP, .32 ACP, and .380 ACP often suffer from JHP loadings that either cannot expand reliably at the lower velocities these cartridges typically generate or are loaded with such light bullets to ensure expansion that they penetrate shallowly. I also do not favor cartridges larger than .44 Magnum or .45 Long Colt because these seem to be about the two largest cartridges in which you can readily find JHP ammunition that will expand reliably within 12-16" of penetration. The problem that the big "monster magnum" handgun cartridges have is that they are primarily designed for hunting and as such use bullets that are designed for extremely deep penetration with very moderate expansion.
I am not as concerned with muzzle blast as many others seem to be because nearly any handgun will cause permanent hearing damage if fired without protection. You're not really "saving" your ears by using a less powerful cartridge and the difference between most handgun cartridges is not likely to be enough to cause a marked long-term difference from a cylinder or magazine full of rounds fired without protection. Also, auditory exclusion will usually keep someone from being immediately deafened from firing a handgun in an emergency although it will not save them from permanent hearing damage.
Capacity is also an attribute which I do not place great emphasis upon when selecting a home defense handgun. A handgun, to me, is a weapon to be used at very close ranges when a more substantial firearm is unavailable. A handgun, regardless of its capacity, is unlikely to be sufficient armament for multiple attackers who are dedicated enough to brave gunfire. If I have a problem in my home that cannot be solved by a revolver or single-stack semi-auto, then it is time for me to reach for either the pump-action shotgun or more likely the semi-automatic rifle that I also keep at the ready for HD.
As far as specific models of gun, caliber, and loadings, my HD handgun changes periodically but most frequently it is my 4" barrel S&W 629 loaded with Speer .44 Magnum 240grn Gold Dot JHP. I also keep a 20" barrel Remington 870 Express Magnum loaded with Remington 3" #4 Buckshot and a 922r-converted Saiga .223 rifle loaded with a 20-round magazine full of Winchester 45grn JHP at the ready.
In your case, I think you are well-armed with your .45 ACP loaded with premium JHP ammunition. One of the nice things about a .45 ACP is that nearly any good JHP in the 185-230grn range seems to give at least adequate performance. My personal loading of choice in that particular caliber is Federal HST 230grn +P, but I would not hesitate to use a different brand of ammo if the HST was not easily available to me.
RockyMtnTactical
New member
Whatever is closest and whatever you shoot best.
I usually have a full size 1911 nearby when I am lounging around the house...
I usually have a full size 1911 nearby when I am lounging around the house...