Best Battle rifle for the civilian ?

I would vote for the M1 garand as the best practical choice in a battle rifle for a civilian.

- available for $400- $500 8 round clips cost .30 - $1 ea
whcih compare favorably to all other pre ban magazine

- ammo plentiful, armor piercing ammo available, can be coverted to 308 if need be for even cheaper ammo

- does not have the evil black rifle perception

- In any scenario that one would likey use a rifle to defend
ownself including riots, waco/ruby ridge type govt. operations one must plan on defending ownself in court later. One trusty M1 Garand WWII rifle is much less menacing then an FAL.

- IMO the govt will never dare get too out of control as long as we have guns and people exercise their rights to own them. Programs like the CMP that are getting thousands
of M1s out into the free market at fair prices are a godsend.
 
I think it is more likely that the common sporting and surplus military arms would be used in that sort of situation. That would seem to limit our caliber choices to something like .22LR, .223, .308, .30-06, .300 WinMag, etc. for rifles and .22LR, .38 Spl, 9mm, .45 for pistols and carbines. At least those are the sorts of things you'd be able to find at the local Wal-Mart. Similarly, few civilians actually have access to FAL and AR style rifles. Now, I wouldn't doubt that a greater part of our population owns a cheap SKS type rifle (gathering dust in the basement) after the panic shopping brought on by that Y2K fiasco. However, in the given scenario we would be more likely to see (IMO) traditional bolt-action hunting rifles, small caliber semi-automatics, and shotguns being used as 'battle rifles' until better weapons could be captured. Unless someone is planning on sharing their H&K carbine, AK rifle, and Sako bolt-action sniper with me (yeah, right) I would have to substitute for what I've got. In this case, a tricked-out 10/22, Mini-14, and Remington M700 .308 heavy barrel would have to suffice.
 
I'm fairly certain I would NOT want to be in a city alone and fighting the bad guys except for fighting my way out. My thoughts run to more rural areas both for food and concealment. Trying to take on the enemy alone in an urban area should be the most dangerous and/or foolhardy thing an inexperienced person can do. Being at least on the fringe of a city with a good long range rifle(does not have to be a 10-20 pounder and would prefer it wasn't because I'm not going to be in one place very long) seems to make me more effective because I would be taking single or a very few shots out of effective range of whom I am hunting, then rapidly displacing. Better include some really good running shoes! As I would be on the move constantly, I would want light weight, long range equipment as I can feel my Remington 700 VS beating the heck out of me while on the run. Caliber would likely be 308 as it is generally more effective than military issue 5.56, 5.45mm etc. I would opt for a high power variable scope as it would allow me to pick targets from farther away, and keeps me lighter for not having to carry binos or spotting scopes. Pistol is for last ditch only at close quarters so I would want big heavy slugs-probably 45ACP or similar. Rifle would be a bolt action Remington/Winchester/Ruger/Savage properly accurized and fitted to me with sling and lightweight bipod. Home away from home would contain shotguns, a couple of spare rifles and pistols plus everything I would need to maintain equipment and health, and being extremely careful NOT to be hunting anywhere near the home.
 
I've always been real dubious about a "Us vs. Evil Gummint" scenario. Bad Times, to me, are more probably to be some expanded variation of the LA Riots of a few years back. That's at least a fact of life of the last 35 years of U.S. history.

To me, then, one's location is important, and then on another scale if in a large city, just what part of town?

One factor folks don't seem to realize is that if violence is broadspread across the country, travel will be difficult if not impossible. Wherever you are is where you're gonna have to tough it out.

When you get down to the nitty-gritty, choice of firearm is pretty far down the list of priorities. Having one is high, sure, but any hunter is already in better shape than most of the rest of the population.

A head shot from a deer rifle on the front fella of a group of Bad Guys is gonna have the rest of them running for a safe spot in which to throw up and consider a new line of work.

Art
 
Gizmo99 has a good point. Ammunition availability could be a critical point in any prolonged disruptiom caused by riots. terrorist attacks, a Chinese nuclear attack etc.
The four US military smallarms cartridges are the .308, .223. 9mm. and .45ACP. Weapons using these rounds are best for serious emergencies.
In many situations the authorities will instantly forbid the sale of firearms and ammunition. Have what you need before the baloon goes up.
 
I personally have an issue with this lone ranger crap. Do you honestly expect to be able to adequately fight government thugs on your own? They plan stuff, thoroughly, and they are organized and very well equiped with huge budgets you cannot possibly match. They get training to deal with people like you and will do so. If you are alone, and they have the slightest clue where you are, they will get you. They may lose a bunch of guys to do so, but they WILL get you.

You wanna survive? Join a militia or form one, and TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN. Then, the other thing you need to do is get EXTREMELY politically active. Throw some real hardcore time into politics. Those two things are your best chances for surviving a dookie in the fan scenario. Frankly your chances of surviving anyway are probably not real high, so of course it'd be best to not let it happen at all.
 
Okay, I give up...

"If you are alone, and they have the slightest clue where
you are, they will get you. They may lose a bunch of guys to do so, but they WILL get you."

Yes, *they* will lose a bunch of guys. This reminds me of a parable from WW2. A Japanese soldier taunted a Manchurian Chinese that in one battle there were 2,000 Chinese killed and only 347 Japanese. The Chinaman did some quick figuring on his abacus. He looked up and said, "Hmmm, pretty soon, no more Japanese."

Go read Federalist 46 or 29 and see what Madison had to say about such ratios...

From Madison in Fed46:

"Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger. The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth part of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, <b>in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands</b>, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops."

Madison and Hamilton already had the ratios worked out. There is nothing new here.

But your targets must not be military. They must be political. Take on the guys pulling the strings. You could waste you time on a couple million troops or you can maximize your affectiveness.

I doubt you will find such targets in the hills. You will have to go where they are. You can live in the hills but the travel-time, and indeed, the travel itself might very well keep you away and cause you detection.

In light of this, a good scoped .22LR with a plastic Coke bottle silencer might be all you need.

Rick
 
22 LR is good

But having the ability to fire .223 is even better. For the Americans,
they'd get an AR-15, a .22 lr bolt and mag as well as a silencer (not
a coke bottle can) that can handle full auto .223 heat-wise.

Two advantages: For really silent shots and hunting small game, use
.22 lr. For hunting homo sapiens, use whatever is appropriate.
Remember - to shoot through a helmet, you need .223.

And you can scrounge ammo from your fallen foes.

I'd of course advocate a SIG 550 since everybody down here can use it.

Though, no .22 LR conversion bolt.
 
I don't know that going out and joining the local militia would indeed be the best step for someone preparing to resist the 'evil government scenario'. First of all, with the bad press these groups have gotten lately, I'm sure they are more closely monitored by that very same government right now. There is something to be said for anonymity. One man (or family or smaller group) is less likely to draw the attention of Big Brother, assuming he keeps his head down and gathers his recources quietly. Sure, more people means greater manpower, but it also means more (weak?)links in the survival chain, and more resources to support the larger group. As was said before, the 'lone ranger' approach won't work against a bigger, better funded, and better trained force (I'm talking about direct conflict here; guerilla ops would be more realistic). But the same goes for a militia group. A 50 to 100 member (or larger), well armed militia may win some intial success but by doing so, they present themselves as a target for the enemy's full force. Their days are numbered. Now if we're talking about survival, that is, avoiding this sort of conflict, then a smaller group or loosley organized individuals might last a bit longer.

On the other hand, it generally takes more than one person to truly make changes.

To get back OT...I think captured enemy weapons and ammunition is only a 'maybe'. First, the people with those weapons and ammo must drop them (one way or another). Making them do that is a risk. Then, you've got to go up there and take what's left, thus exposing yourself. That is also a risk. I agree most with whoever said that you can only count on what you've got -before- TSHTF. But obviously, a 'popular' rifle using a 'popular' or surplus caliber is your best bet.
 
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