Best Battle rifle for the civilian ?

N

Nevada Fitch

New member
While I have had extensive shooting expeirence with most sporting rifle designs, outside of the AR 15 or the Ruger mini-14 or the semi-auto AK47 carbine, my expeirence with military rifles is somewhat limited.so here is my question,What is the best battle rifle for the Civilian freedom fighter who may not have much support from anyone and would be fighting mostly alone? Most reliable with the least maintance? Accurate enough for most encounters? Powerful also.Not a poddle shooter unless someone really thinks that is the best way to go. I will go ahead and stick my neck out and say that it very well may be a boltaction sporter with a low power scope in 308Win.What does everyone else think? Please don't recomend something if you haven't had personal expeirence with it.
 
For your intended use, I would sat an M1A or a H&K 91. The M1a is more accurate. The H&k 91 is the toughest and most accurate .308 rifle that I have ever seen.
 
All choices mentioned look pretty good. I'd think about having something in the predominant military caliber as well as more firearms in popular calibers.

I'm thinking of battlefield pick up ammo and spare parts.


Giz
 
Since you would be mostly alone, I would think you would not need to plan for a firefight requiring a lot of rapid firepower (at least not for planned encounters!), and given that, I would consider a bolt gun. A nice Remington action .308 scout configured rifle would give you light weight, a good round, relatively rapid fire (for a bolt gun, since the forward sight at least for me makes it quicker to run the bolt), available spare parts and reliability. I would also consider a Steyr Scout, since it has an integral bipod and removable mags, with buttstock storage for spare mags, and is light and accurate (probably harder to get spare parts, though). It would be hard, though, to not grab an MIA!
 
This subject has come up quite a bit over the last 20 years, going back into the Carter era and the rise of "Survivalism".

I think the most important modifier you used was "mostly alone". To me, this means you will work like the dickens to avoid confrontation with groups. Just mentioning a gun means that noise is not a particular problem in what you might call "normal" activities.

You're either going to be thinking 99% defense, in which case rate of fire and ammunition capacity is important; or some amount of offense, in which case you're talking sniping. This latter probably would mean one shot and leave most soonest.

Charles Whitman could tell you that a 6mm Remington bolt-action is adequately effective at 420 yards. So can I; I was some 10 yards from the victim.

It's your scenario...

Art
 
Nevada-

In addition to the varied and highly knowledgeable folks around here, one other good resource for this question would be "Boston's Gun Bible" by Boston T. Party. It is published by Javelin press and available either via his website http://www.javelinpress.com or via http://www.amazon.com.

He has an extensive analysis of the various battle rifle options available and how he ranked them. Your personal situation and rankings of what's important may be slightly different, but it really makes you think about a number of factors when reading his choices and reviews. A great book, I highly recommend it. I own it and refer to it frequently.

Regards,

Bob
 
Art, I am talking ofensive but of course defense would be a posibility to contend with.But being alone you could not afford to get in a fire fight of any duration I would think.Of course I would want an auto pistol in addition to a rifle for close and unplanned encounters.One of the main things I am interested in is reliability without the benefit of regular mantiance.Which military rifle will continue to work well with little to no maintance in the field?Remember we are talking about a civilian who might not even have a small can of oil with him and also might not even know how to maintain an automatic in the first place.
 
Ask Boston?

Well, if Boston T. Party is your man, he would suggest a FAL for semi-auto and just about any bolt gun with decent scope.
Maintainance? Bolt gun. .308, of course. Controled feed rifles are supposed to be more durable, over all, correct? If you are a lone wolf, you are suggesting a sniper scenario, anyway. Good rifle, ghillie suit, survival gear. But if you want to be affective, your targets will not be military, they will be political. Who wants to take on a million troops when those millions are controlled by so few?

Boston T. Party also recommends the Makarov as his pistol of choice. But the caliber would scare me away. He also suggests a Glock. Although I am a .45 fan, I might go with a 9mm for convenience reasons.
 
My choice would be FAL. I have had real life experience with Garand and M-16. I like the FAL because of it's flexibility in ammo, simple take down, few and large parts (easier to find when dropped). Accuracy quite adequate and ammo available for the taking.

I would also like to have a suppressed bolt action .22 with about 4 power scope for those days when you don't feel social.

Sam...follow me, I know a shortcut
 
The rifle I went with for this kind of thing is a FAL. Mine is an L1a1 built on an Imbel receiver by CAI. I got lucky and got a good Century assembled gun. I've heard some horror stories about their quality control, but I knew the prior owner and he had shot the heck out of it with no malfunctions. Magazines are cheap also. When search is back up look for threads about FAL vs. M1a vs. HK91 for some really interesting reading.

As Sam said, the FAL is easy to maintain, with only big parts coming out when you field strip it. Accurate enough for most duties, and an all around tough gun.
 
No AK suggestions?

Based upon your durability requirements, I'm a bit surprised no one has suggested an AK. FAL's are a bit pricey for many people, no? And, is an FAL as durable as an AK? I understand the FAL is much harder hitting, and accurate, but is it as durable?

Thanks. Interesting thread. Regards from AZ
 
The AK isn't really a 'battle rifle' per se... The FAL is very durable, not quite as durable as the AK due to tighter tolerances, but I would hazard to say .

FAL's can be had for ~$600, sure they won't be in 'excellent' shape but they will work just fine with some minor repairs. Or you can buy a reciever (~$250 for an Imbel) and a parts kit ($99-???) now and buy the US parts down the road to put it together in the future.
 
Some interesting posts here. I believe the AK-47 is in all probablity one of the most goof-proof weapos ever made. But I think I would vote for the AR-15/M-16 as the best bet.
I figure if the Vigaro hits the Mixmaster, it might be the Goverment vs us. What do we use. The M-16. For the handgun, a 9MM, preferably a Beretta (not that they are that good, but ammo supply amd extra magazines from the enemy). I damn well wish we'd stayed with the 1911 .45's.
Definite not a scenario I would ever like to see, but speaking on a hypothetical basis, that is the way I would go.
If the antagonist were Russia or Red China, one of the AK variants would also be a good choice.
If a scout type rifle was on the agenda, I would consider one based on a 98 Mauser. That's a rifle designed to be goof-proof by scared troops in battle. Unfortunatly, that's a custom proposition. Hmmmm. Sounds like an idea for a project rifle at that.
Paul B.
 
Don't forget about a suppressed .308.

The AK just doesn't have the distance for me. AR15 neither.

This will not be fought out in the boonies for the most part. It will be fought in urban and suburban areas, where the rest of the bad guys live, and work.

Rick
 
Paul B.: Remember that in any of these "scenarios" anyone from whom you would take ammo/mags would also have uncrippled versions of these weapons (i.e. select-fire, not put together by chimps at Century, muzzle threads, bayo lug). IMHO what the other guy has should not be a consideration for weapon choice, except as something to be countered, not necessarily imitated.

Battler.
 
http://club.guns.ru/eng/sv99.html

This new rifle in caliber .22 LR has a compact envelope: exactly 1,000 mm long. The weapon has been
designed and made by the IZHMASH Joint Stock Company to the technical requirements of SPETSNAZ
- Russia's special force.

From the point of view of its construction, SV-99 has a few interesting and unique features.

First of all, the caliber. There is a joke among Russian arms designers: those who are used to
developing "serious" assault or large-caliber sniper rifles, they mockingly call the .22LR weapons
nothing but "fly killers", which means, this caliber is treated like something unacceptable for a combat
weapon. Of course, this is only a joke.

In fact, my recent research on sniper rifles developed by various companies around the globe reveals
that the "sharps" industry has a strong tendency towards larger calibers: .338 Lapua Magnum, 12.7 mm
and even 20 mm. SV-99 is probably the only true sniper rifle with the bore's diameter of 5.6 mm only. I
would mislead readers if I'd say that sniper rifles in .22LR has never been in practice. I was told by
Vietnam veterans that Viet Cong fighters used old TOZ 5.6 mm plinkers as weapons of close combat
and sniper rifles successfully deployed in towns. Similar reports I had from the snipers who took part in
the actions in Chechnya: Standard hunting .22LR "Sobol" rifles were used in the "snipers' war" in
Grozniy. Smart guys, they used plastic bottles with tiny holes in the bottom and attached to rifle's muzzle
as silencers! They said, such rifles were compact, accurate at close ranges. Fired from internal
premises (a room, a hideout, etc.) small-caliber rifles produced very low sound blast that could hardly
be heard at a distance of over 100 meters. Their "quietness" and accuracy was the important factor that
made "fly killers" so effective as an anti-personnel weapon. I remember, one sniper was saying: - If a
target is closer than 100 meters, You don't have to defeat a ballistic jacket. An exposed neck, face or
head is just enough! And the gun is so "quiet"...

So, I was not entirely surprised when I heard a word from one of my friends in the R&D center that IZHMASH was working on a new small-caliber sniper
rifle.

A few days ago I was able to thoroughly examine the SV-99 rifle.
Click to expand...
 
Well it seams like there is a lot of votes for the FAL out there. I may have to give it a closer look.I almost forgot I shot a few clips through an HK 91 once that belonged to my brother inlaw.It worked quite well. How does the HK 91 stack up against the FAL?
 
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