Best Ammo for Cow Elk in 308?

A standard 22 long rifle bullet is 40 grains. The difference between a 165 and a 180 is just over 1/3 of that. Not much.Its a fine shade of grey,not a make or break thing.
I remember the days when there were only 150 gr and 180 gr.

The wily hunter would agonize and argue between 150's and 180's. From campfire discussions to bar room brawls,each bullet had its champions.

So some smart alec made the 165 for folks who could not make up their mind.

In either case,its not too far wrong.

I would tend to choose a 165 for a 308 and a 180 for a 30-06.Thats for seat of the pants reasons around the shorter case and magazines But I'd use 180's in a 308,no problem.Ditto 165's in a 30-06.

I,myself,don't think in terms of penetrating an elk from any angle. But I live in Colorado and I don't spend thousands of dollars.I'm OK with not shooting if I don't have a good heart lung shot.

If I'm concerned about shooting through from any angle,I have a nice,light 375 Taylor that trajectory matches a 308 with a 260 grain Accubond.

I also have a .257 Ackley,A Rem 81 300 Savage,an old cut down 30-40 Krag,and a fake 1903A4 Springfield sniper rifle.I would not hesitate to use any of them to elk hunt. Or my .54 Hawkin or the Rolling Block 40-70 Sharps/405 Win brass version.
Understand the tool,accept limitations,and know where the organs lie. Aim small.
You have enough info to be properly gunned.
 
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Here in Co, cow tag is draw tag and not too much trouble to fill one. If I didn't live here not sure I bother to get one. We have elk draw tags that take 20yrs or better to draw and those are either sex, I guess if you can't get bull you have option of cow.

Myself I'm not going to use rifle that I use bull tag and I drew first rifle season cow tag it's 5 day season. May use 284 on long action.

Harvest stats for Co and I think Wy maybe same, Cow/Calf taken about same amount as bulls
 
I have killed two cow elk in North Idaho with .270 Winchester and 140 grain Accubond. In both cases, the bullet went through the chest cavity and broke the off leg upon exit. In one case, the cow dropped where she stood (80 yard shot). In the other, the cow ran downhill 50 yards on three legs then died (40 yard shot - went through her heart).
 
I've never shot an elk, but I've killed and seen killed a whole bunch of deer.... I'm with Wyosmith... I like exit wounds.

On the other hand, excess power/energy is just wasted on your shoulder and in the tree on the other side... as Wyo said, 100% is all there is, once you make it through, "more" doesn't count.

I believe that ultra-high velocity produces additional trauma that is hard to detect experimentally but which shows up with experience as you watch animals die/react. The fabled "hydro-static shock". The effect is generally thought to begin around 2,000fps but... more is better.

The above concepts put together equal "light, fast and tough" for me. That's why I use Barnes bullets, generally in the lightest available size. I wouldn't have the slightest qualms about shooting an elk with a 110gr Barnes TTSX, MV ~3,500fps in .308. Could bump it up to 130gr at 3,200 if the thought of shooting an elk with a 110gr made you queasy... but then I bought a 7mm-08 and shoot 120s on purpose so....
 
cow elk?

Personally, I see no reason to take anything but the core locked. perfectly adequate, accurate, expands well, good for that size at that range.

Don't feel comfortable with that? use any bonded or partition. but, don't forget to use up about $500 trying several of them out, at three or four boxes each, for accuracy, reliability, and sighting in.

Tough call, IMO, one that I'll never have to make. I'd prefer to go on that $2,000 hunt carrying the absolute top of the line, but commonsense tells me that I don't need to drive myself nuts. The core lokt in that rifle will kill the darned thing unless you miss the places that make it fall down and die.

at short range I might go with a 165.
 
Store bought ammo, what next! :-) If I were to use it, I'm pretty sure I shoot Rem core locks. There is likely a reason they have the reputation they do. I wouldn't count out the Winchester silver tip but have read a lot more about the core lock. What I would really pay attention to is bullet weight and in the 308 the only weight bullet I've used for years is 165gr, they shot great with min recoil. 180's shot great but increased the recoil. 150's just never shot well for me.
 
Another vote for Rem 180 CLs. Depending if your rifle groups with them. I've
only shot one elk, with 3006 and Rem CL. Win 70fw & Weaver K6 at about 250.
I have shot a lot of deer with 308 m70 and 35Rem with Rem CLs they do the job
if you do yours. This specialty ammo stuff is hype. For a 100years elk, moose
deer and black bear have been taken with off the shelf ammo and in guns with
less power than a 308. The lowly 30/30 takes more than its share. The only
factory ammo I had issue with was Winchester 3006 Silver Tips. They shot
through deer like military FMJs. I was a teenager I bought them because they
looked cool. They weren't designed to expand on thin skinned game. Never
used them again. I have a box of Rem Bronze Points and would suppose they
will do the same thing. I haven't ever shot anything with one.
 
Cow elk weigh in at approx 375 to 450 lbs. Any modern 180 grain bullet is a fine choice - I've had very good luck with Remington core-lokt ammo.

Jack

 
The only
factory ammo I had issue with was Winchester 3006 Silver Tips. They shot
through deer like military FMJs. I was a teenager I bought them because they looked cool.
Click to expand...
You were suckered, it's that simple. The silvertip was meant for larger game with heavier bones and tissues.

The bullet itself was a standard cup and core that was designed with a large exposed lead point, and that lead point was covered with an aluminum cap that was crimped on when the jacket was swaged on. The thing worked on heavy animals because the aluminum cap had to break and rupture before the soft point could started expansion, and the huge wad of lead expanded the bullet quickly afterwards as it went through the remaining animal.

I have a box of Rem Bronze Points and would suppose they
will do the same thing. I haven't ever shot anything with one.
Click to expand...
The bronze point was the original polymer tipped round. Impact of the tip was ssupposed to pop the bullet open and initiate expansion immediately. I have heard little praise and a lot of poop regarding them. Either the point failed to start expansion or the core literally went to pieces as the jacket split.

The bronze point was a first generation, and it was created before we could test for effectiveness. Our tools and design capabilities were primitive. Nosler developed a solid based bullet in both HP and SP styles, and later added a tipped bullet. The nosler bullet was far better because nosler worked harder at it. You cannot possibly compare the old BP with the new breed of tipped bullets.

Good business practice is to try and sell people things that cost more. years back when winchester had the black talon, they also released a black rifle bullet with something like five or more components, advertising it as an extreme penetrator and worth every dollar. So here we are in white tail country, and there were tens of thousands of dollars worth of these black bullets out on display come deer season. These things were meant to shoot through heavy game, and they did. People bought $2 ammo and had deer walking away.

The new poly tips are good for ballistics and perform well on small game. They aren't meant for heavy game. other types are meant for elk.
 
The new poly tips are good for ballistics and perform well on small game. They aren't meant for heavy game. other types are meant for elk.
Click to expand...

Your overall post was good,we disagree a bit on this point.

Frankly,I've never hunted elk with factory loads.Started rolling my own in the late 60's.
I do not have Cor-Loct Remington experience.Apparently,they do the job.

I grew up reading Elmer Kieth wtite about Western Tool and Copper bullets froma 333 OKH ,busting the south end of a northbound bull. I'm thinking a busy man who needs meat has his own way of doing things.

If you have the luxury of choosing a shot through ribs into the boiler room,a 308 shooting a 165 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip will work just fine inside 300 yds.

So would a 15 grains of lead heavier 180 gr.It will open up and soup the heart/lungs.
And there are the Accu-Bond and Partition options.

I'm not knocking the Remington Cor-Lokt ammo.I'm sure its worked fine for decades.

I'll say it this way. Few would argue with a 130 gr Cor-Lokt from a 270 being adequate for this cow elk. But its not for blowing holes through something brown crashing through the trees. It works hitting the boiler room.And frankly,so will a .243 properly loaded.
If you can place a shot a 165 gr Ballistic Tip works fine.So does a 180.
No doubt either Cor-Lokt will also do fine.
The 308 is not extreme.That helps it be dependable.I'll agree that too hard of a bullet may not work as well.For myself,I'd probably choose the Ballistic Tip over the Accubond.
 
well, yes, that wasn't particularly well stated. We have so many different types of tipped bullets. There are even partition tipped bullets.

The tip and the gap behind it are meant to start an instant rupture, and they do a great job of that. An ordinary soft point has to be compressed to start the mushroom. The tipped bullets work more like a conventional pistol hollow point, allowing fluids to pop the lead open.

From the first, when nosler released the BT, they sold it as a deer or smaller thing, and expected people to use the partition for others.

The BT, since it was just another cup and core tended to get overheated at times and not retain full weight for penetration, and it opened up and dumped a lot of energy before it reached vital areas. Energy dump is fine, but if it happens in a big old ruminant's gut full of forage, you lost it.

so yes, the broadside hit with a BT is a wonderful thing, but there needs to be a more reliable and deeper wound channel, rather than a very wide and bloodshot one.

Now, nosler has refined the BT to the level that it's almost perfect. The tapered core will prevent failure to expand, and should prevent it from coming to pieces at extreme velocities.

I used to get really involved in debates about various things. two of them can be pretty much set aside. First, there's no point in heated debate between either the .308 or 30-06. Second, no matter what bullet you get, it can still fail, and maybe the other bullet would have done better. pick a bullet with a good design and take your best shot.
 
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