Best all around rifle caliber advice

You are mistaken,...Hornady makes 3 separate 150 Grain 30-06 Superformance loads. SST, SST Interbond, GMX. Same as the 270 Win. They are making them because the "Temporarily suspended" was generically posted only to catch up with the current demand. I read that about the 270 on their web site and called them. They have started production on all their main calibers using Superformance in most all bullet weights. Superformance will be their future in rifle ammunition. The 30-06 SST Superformance are in stock at Sportsmans Guide for $27.64. I know SG carries 165 and 180 Superformance. Talking to Hornady, Superformance will eventually become their standard load for all calibers. They are moving it across the entire line of bullets and calibers. Superformance will be the new norm. Remington is also trying to do the same thing with their "Hyper Sonic" but has not been as fast as Hornady in independent testing.
There will still be a price point load offered by Hornady in the older interlock (soft point) ammo and will be marketed it as American Whitetail. The old Soft Points have put the smack down on deer for 70 years and can be a better choice in the brush.


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I am going by a very neutral and even playing field manufacture specs of the latest top shelf high performance ammo.. That way all things are equal including barrel length.

JOC did use the 150 in the 30-06 and talked much about how the 165 grain would have to be used to give the 30-06 a better ballistic coefficient. Not much has changed in bullet weights with these two calibers over the years. The BC in the 30-06 cant catch up to the BC of the 270. At 100 yards the 30-06 is loosing energy fast.
 
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Easy choice. .270WIN.

Another one I'd consider not on the OP's list is .308WIN.

.308 is short action vs the .270 Long action.
 
Long range trajectory is virtually irrelevant to cartridge performance. If you're shooting at something that matters from 500 yards away, you're not guessing the distance. You're dialing in the trajectory and you know what your gun does, or you're a fool for trying to shoot at something that matters from that distance. If you know what your gun does and you're dialing the distance, trajectory is irrelevant.

The "wild card" is your ability to judge wind. Even if you have a fancy, expensive, whirly bird wind meter, it doesn't tell you a thing about what the wind is doing half way across the valley or 15 feet above line of sight, where your bullet will be.

Sighted for 500 yards and using all Winchester Silver Tip factory ammo, there is a 10mph wind drift difference of 0.6 inches between a 180gr .30-06 and a 130gr .270., 24.4 versus 25.0. Going to the 150gr .30-06, the difference is 4.5 inches, in favor of the .270.

That means that if you misjudged the wind by an average of 10mph, you'd miss your intended POI by 2 feet with the .270 and at worst by 30 inches with the .30-06.

If you DON'T misjudge the wind, it's just as irrelevant as the trajectory. If you do, you just missed your intended POI by 2+ feet.

Anyone care to make an argument that missing by 2 feet is better than missing by 30 inches?

In other words, virtually any modern cartridge is more than up to any reasonable task at any distance at which the shooter is up to the task. Pick your favorite and learn to shoot it. If you can't decide, roll some dice. If the dice picks a cartridge and you're disappointed when you see the roll, you know you didn't really want that one, pick the other.
 
Long range trajectory is virtually irrelevant to cartridge performance.
Click to expand...

Are you kidding??? Thats a pretty big dismissal. Not buying it Brian,....You are interjecting operator error with hypothetical wind.... Comparing calibers with known performance variables is the only way to fairly and neutrally evaluate them.
Bullet drop is a known variable that cant be overlooked and is always present.

This guy didnt seem to have any trouble at 720 yards on a goat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VBAInIDlG4
 
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Exactly... it's a KNOWN variable. That makes it irrelevant.

Is it 25 clicks or 30? Range the target, check the charts, make the clicks. It doesn't matter if it's 18 or 45 or 60, so long as you know. Make the clicks. Done.
 
Thats a pretty big known factor you are arbitrarily dismissing. Thats a personal choice and not a caliber comparison factor. Most hunters buy flat shooting calibers so they dont have to make sight adjustments. They zero their gun for maximum sight on game shots. Even if you were going to take +500 yard shots and adjust your optics with a compensator, if you cant dope the wind, you have no business taking any long range shot regardless what caliber it is. Thats a training issue not caliber deficiency.
 
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Exactly my point.

You're making my point for me.

You have to be able to read the wind and know the distance to make the shot.

If you DO know, the cartridge in your gun is irrelevant. If you DON'T know, the cartridge in your gun isn't going to save you.

"Flat shooting" is only relevant as it applies to the difference in MBPR. Since those distances vary between almost any major caliber by 20 or 30 yards and are usually in the 300-ish yard range, they are also irrelevant at 500 yards.

What most hunters do doesn't mean it's based on reality either.

"Most hunters" will tell you that "Caliber X" isn't sufficient for elk/deer/bear/moose/etc too, that doesn't mean they know what they're talking about.
 
I think we have been agreeing to agree but looking at it from two different directions...;)
Energy at the end of the shot does matter so there is limit to how far you can take a particular caliber for certain size game so BC (ie energy) are the definitive factor to consider for long range.
 
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Perhaps we are.;)

On energy, yes, it can matter, but it's another area that is vastly over-stated and obsessed on in an almost religious way.

As an extreme example to make my point, I'd much rather have the young lady who's about to make the 500 yard shot on an elk be one who has burned through 4 barrels in her .243 and knows the thing stone cold than have her using her husband's .300Win Mag that she hates and never shoots because it hurts but her husband "made her" bring it because the .243 "ain't enough".
 
Absolutely...... You hit the nail on the head. Recoil is just as much a factor for long range shooting, even for experienced shooters.

The 270 with its lower recoil and high BC is about as much as a free ride your gonna get for medium game and long range shooting.. If I can get a 270 Superformance load to darn near match a conventional 300 win mag load with energy and bullet drop out at 500 yards, that is a heck of a free lunch. I am shooting the same distances now with my 270 as I was with my 300 win mag. I think I am more accurate with my 270 because I can shoot more shots at one sitting and ammo cost 1/3 less $$$.

Obviously if I am hunting big moose and dangerous game as my primary goal, I am going with the 300 Win Mag with a 180 grain bullet. But for elk, deer, black bear, caribou, hogs, ram, goats, prong horns, etc...I am taking the 270 Winchester every time.
 
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Good points Brian. At first I was going to tell you to get a 270, but in reviewing what is needed for your REAL applications, a 243 is more than enough for you to use. Unless you were planning to go Mule Deer hunt out west or going for Monster bucks in MN. I would have added Illinois but you can only use a shotgun or muzzle loader for those. The 243 is the perfect rifle for varmint as well as deer hunting.

As to Elk, let's get real. There are things we would like to do and there are things that we will actually do. Paying 800 or 900 dollars for a Elk tag and then waiting years to get picked in a lottery for a out of state tag, is not going to happen soon.

So what are we really talking about, year round coyote hunting, once a year deer hunting, maybe 5 or 6 times a year rifle range shooting? These are what you are most probably going to do. So what rifle caliber would be good for this.

Yep, the good old 243. Available ammo, relativity less expensive ammo, a flat out barn burner in 55 grain bullets for coyotes and a killer cartage in 100, 105 or 107 grain bullets for deer, antelope, goats, pigs and yes even Elk if shot placement is right.

Good luck and happy hunting.
Jim
 
Yup, If Coyotes and deer are your main game, then the 243 is what you want. Cant beat it. Low recoil and great bullet selection. Soon as you get into bigger black bear, elk,etc... then you might want to look at a heavier hitting caliber.
My 14 year old niece killed a nice buck at 180 yards clean with one shot from her 243. A small group of my family hunting tribe that believes the "30 caliber or nothing for deer" looked shocked.
 
Yes, I was mistaken on the Hornady ammunition as I didn't search by cartridge. I just opened the Superfomance page and the first two pages it showed everything temporarily discontinued. That was my mistake for not digging deeper into the webpage.

Never said JOC didn't use other bullets in the .30-06. What I said when JOC was promoting the .270 the .30-06 and 180 grain bullet were synonymous. In the last 15-20 years you've seen more lighter grain bullet loads than was possible before that. Just like when I bought my first big game rifle a .243 about the only bullet weight I could find back then was 100-105 grain bullets at BigR, Gibson's or Woolworths.
 
Very true the he did promote the 180 in the 30-06. He was fond of the caliber /bullet combination for Grizzly bear. JOC noticing dirt fly on the opposite side of the grizzly that he was shooting from complete pass throughs and commented why anyone needs a bigger gun for grizzly bears is beyond him. ;) His wife used it for cats in India. My only issue with lighter than 150 grain bullets in the 30-06 is out of the 4 30-06 rifles my family has, none of them shoot them that accurately. Bonded bullets have certainly upped the game of conventional calibers. I would bet JOC would never use anything heavier than a 130 grain bonded bullet for anything had he had them. The good old days are now...:cool:

On a side note:...This is a very good forum with mature and adult responses. Very few gun forums can have a level of discussion like this without childish insults and the like.... It speaks volumes about the active participants of the Firing Line forums and the level of class everyone tries to maintain.
Great discussion, this round is on me.......
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Interesting line of conversation. Personally, I've never been a real big fan of the .270, especially with 130 gr. bullets. Got my first one back in 1973 because it was cheap. An NIB commercial FN Mauser for $75. dealer couldn't sell it be cause the swas, to quote Jack O'Connor, "It was so ugly it would abort a lady crocodile." Oh but did it shot. Shot two deer with it and it's sat in the safe ever since. Picked up a couple of others, another 1951 issue FN commercial and a Ruger #1A that were also very accurate. Onr day at a gun show I picked up another one that was cheap enough that I figured I could turn it over for around $50 tp $100 later on when I got closer to hunting season. I picked up a box of Winchester 150 gr. Power Points and went to the range to check the sighting in and it turns out to be the most accurate .270 I own with groups running from .50" to .75", the latter being the last 5 shot string on a hot day with a hot barrel.
After 33 years of trying to draw an antelope tag in my home state, in 2009 I booked with an outfitter in New Mexico for a hunt. I took that new rifle in .270 with my pet 150 gr. Sierra Game King load at 2900 FPS and after a long slow stalk shot my goat at 75 yards. After several months of practice to 500 meters at my club's range I get the shot at 75 yards. Could a took him with my 30-30 and a cast bullet :eek: Didn't draw for antelope, deer or elk again this year for it's off to New Mexico for another cow elk hunt next january. I thought about the .270 and I have a good supply of 150 gr. Nosler Partitions but I've decided on my .280 Rem. I had recent eye surgery on both eyes and the doc says go easy on the recoil. My .280 weighs at least two pounds haevier than any of my .270s so I can get away with loading stiff loads in it that I wouldn't dare with the .270. Wit factory loads it feels about like my
M70 Featherweight in 7x57 shooting the 140 gr. Winchester Power Points.
If I'm lucky enough to draw for antelope and deer next year I'll probably go with the .270. Hopefully if I draw for elk I'll be able to go with my .35 Whelen.
Paul B.
 
Any of the ones you listed would work fine, so would several other rounds. More importantly is that you use the right bullet for the task, scope it well and pick a platform you are comfortable with and shoot it regularly. Put a proper bullet where it needs to be and let physics do the rest. Obviously hunting loads will kill any coyote around (if you don't care about the pelts), but lighter, more frangible bullets can fail miserably on game. I always adivse folks to try the fit and feel of many different rifles at least one of them will "speak" to you. It will feel better than the others, maybe for no reason you can determine but it will speak.
 
I wish I had the money to afford multiple rifles. But I don't. And this is where the 06 beats every other round. It is the one caliber that can do everything. Literally.

As fun as it is to talk about ballistics and cartridge capabilities, at the end of the day I have to pick one.
The reality of the situation is that even though I really want to hunt elk and someday grizzly, that may never happen.

But if the opportunity ever does present itself, I'm not buying a new rifle for a one time hunting experience. So what will I take? My 30/06, because I've been shooting it all this time and I know it will get the job done.
 
From that perspective, you'd be better off with a .338 Lapua or something.

.30-06 may "do everything" if your definition is very loose, but it's positively lousy for anything much smaller than whitetail deer and certainly wouldn't be considered sufficient for a great deal of African hunting.

If "do everything" is defined as deer to brown bear, yeah, it's a "do everything" gun.

Otherwise, there really is no such cartridge.

It really isn't logical to buy a gun now based on some ethereal future hunt which may well never happen and would cost probably $15,000 if it did, with the notion that you wouldn't want to spend $500 or $1000 on a new gun for your $15,000 bear hunt.

For most guys, "do everything" doesn't include anything larger than an deer, most of the remaining nothing larger than a moose. Sure a .30-06 covers the top end of that spectrum but it's a lousy varmint gun in terms of recoil, pelt damage, etc. Any number of other cartridges would kill a moose, elk and most certainly any deer alive just as dead and be far more pleasant to shoot and a much better choice at the low end of the "do everything" spectrum.
 
Jim243 said:
As to Elk, let's get real. There are things we would like to do and there are things that we will actually do. Paying 800 or 900 dollars for a Elk tag and then waiting years to get picked in a lottery for a out of state tag, is not going to happen soon.
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Lets get real here at least about a few things on elk hunting. Elk tags don't cost $800-900, and elk can be hunted every year even for the out of state resident. Colorado a cow elk tag is $351 and bull elk tags are $586 both of which can be bought over the counter. As well as being bought over the counter there is enough elk in those areas that if one does a little homework before hand just on the computer can have a decent chance of bagging an elk and bringing it home. Are these trophy bull areas, no but the hunt and its memories can be a trophy all to there own.

Plus you never know where you might run into a trophy elk, you can find at least a 275-300 class bull in about every unit that has elk in it in Colorado. The 350+ class units do take a few years to draw but you get all the money back except a $3 application fee if unsuccessful. So it isn't like you're loosing that money you put into the draw, plus Colorado works on a point system which improves your odds in a trophy unit every year.

Is it cheap to hunt out of state, no again. However, it can be done on a reasonable budget to where you can come every other year if not every year. It all depends on how and where you want to spend your money. If a hunter was to budget $200 a month towards an elk hunt in Colorado and had some decent camping gear, and the time off to hunt, I'd bet when the season was over they'd be going home with money in their wallet to put towards the next years hunt. Especially if you got a group of 2-4 hunters together to split driving time and fuel costs.
 
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