Best 9mm defense ammo for CZ 75

anyone tried?

I don't recall the manufacturer but they produce the 8 segment 9mm round called R.I.P. Has anyone tried this? They are a bit spendy, and maybe gimmicky. Upon contact, they supposedly divide into 8 copper projectiles, with 12+ gel penetration IIRC. i aslo use Hornady Critical Defense, that have the hardened bar down in the hollowpoint for penetrating bone.

What are the opinions on Frangible rounds for inside the home, or even out in the world?

This is my first post of any kind. As a newbie, i want to say hi, and hope to learn and share lots. Thanks for allowing me aboard!

—h
 
I don't recall the manufacturer but they produce the 8 segment 9mm round called R.I.P. Has anyone tried this?
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From the evaluations and tests I've seen it's a very ineffective ammo.

You can probably find several tests on YouTube. When Ballistic Gel tests are done with anything in front of the Gel (like materials simulating clothing, denim, leather or even bone [as in the rib cage]), only a small central segment penetrates enough to maybe do damage; the other small pieces get lost somewhere along the way -- and don't penetrate enough to do more than modest damage.

As for frangible ammo -- there might be places where it's appropriate, but I can't think of any, offhand.

.
 
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Rip rounds are all gimmick. The design has shown to be prone to causing malfunctions as well.

The effectiveness of frangible rounds on a target are highly debatable. The question is... Does larger but shallow wounds produce effective stopping of the threat target?

Evidence says no.

At present, the only evidence we have points to proper shot placement and adequate penitration being the only reliable means of stopping a threat.

General accepted standards developed by the FBI with the aid of ballistic and wound experts... Says that proper penitration of the round is a minimum of 12 inches and a max of 18 inches fired into ballistic gel. The sweet spot many look for is 14-16 inches. Tests are done with the gel both bare and when covered in four layers of very heavy denim.

The minimum is to ensure enough penitration, and the max is to limit over penetrating the target and posing a danger to bystanders. The bare and covered test is to ensure performance with various amounts of clothing. As some HP designs are susceptible to clogging, which causes a failure to expand, leading to over penitration.

It is no longer looked at the expansion of HP rounds as being the important factor in stopping the threat. Though it can aid in that... The expansion is now looked at as the method of controlling penetration depth.


The critical defense round has a semi rigid polymer insert to prevent clogging failures.

For barrier penitration, bullet design features such as bonding the lead core to the outer jacket and basic core design are the primary factors at play.
 
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CZ did NOT design the 75 to comply with NATO weapon or ammo specifications. Back during the '70s, Czechoslovakia was part of the Communist Bloc and the Warsaw Pact. The CZ-75 was NOT designed for military use -- as the Soviets called the shots, and the Warsaw Pact didn't use 9x19 in any of their issue weapons. (The Czech military didn't even use a version of the 75 until relatively recently; the PCR, a compact version of the 75 was later used by the Police of the Czech Republic (i.e, the PCR.)

It was only much, much later (in the early 2000s) that the CZ-75 P-01 was designed to comply with NATO specs, and with some relatively recent design changes, it no longer complies -- and that NSN is no longer stamped on the gun.

CZ's management designed the 75 for export outside the Iron Curtain, but the West's embargo of most Communist products hampered that effort. They sold a lot to countries in the Middle East, to Israel, and to police nad small military units in Africa. Only Canada and West Germany really allowed some imports of CZ products, and quite a few made it to the U.S., as they were sold in stock (and customized forms) in Post and Base Exchanges in West Germany.
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Thanks @Walt, I wasn't aware of that. it is good to know. I also appreciate the clarification of the PCR nomenclature. It is a carry pistol I am very interested in.

Is there a clarification that the European 9mm rounds , on average, run hotter than modern factory ammo? Could that be the basis for the rumor I was fed regarding CZ's ability to run +P ammo?

I'm asking because recently, there was a run of 9mm 'NATO' labelled ammo in the Orlando area. Warnings started running popping up on forums for people to be sure they understood that that 'NATO'-labelled ammo runs hotter than 'typical' wal-mart stuff and, as such, shooters should ensure their guns could handle the extra pressures. That is where I picked the misinformation btw.
 
frgood said:
Is there a clarification that the European 9mm rounds , on average, run hotter than modern factory ammo? Could that be the basis for the rumor I was fed regarding CZ's ability to run +P ammo?
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I don't have an answer to your question, but didn't want you to think I was ignoring a direct question.

Some European-made ammo is a bit hotter than U.S.-made ammo, but the difference isn't likely to be an issue. (The issue arises mostly with the cheaper stuff most of us who don't reload use at the range or in the gun games.)

There has been extra-hot 9mm available from time to time; some of it was originally intended for sub-machine guns, and it's probably only a problem for guns NOT designed to handle +P ammo (and the ammo in question might be a bit hotter than NATO and +P,) I suspect THAT is what you're hearing about.

I wouldn't be afraid to use small amounts of that extra-hot stuff in a CZ, but I wouldn't want to make it an every-day fodder for ANY handgun, regardless of the ammo's price or the gun's reputation for durability.

.
 
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For self defense, heavy for caliber -- in your case, 147-gr -- is the way to go, assuming they will safely chamber. Some CZ 75s need their chambers throated, so take your barrel to your ammo store, drop a round in, and make sure it's a flush fit.

Fed HST is a quality brand with no need to step up to +P for reliable expansion or adequate penetration. Other premium brands (eg, Speer Gold Dot, Hornady Critical Duty) are good, too.
 
I run 124 grain +P Gold Dots in my CZ75. It's my home defense pistol so I put 150 rounds of gold dot through it to make sure I wouldn't face any hiccups.
 
I also carry 124gr +P Gold Dots or HSTs (depending on availability).

I prefer the middle weights in all calibers (except 45ACP). It's generally the best compromise between expansion and penetration.
 
Shot placement with reliable ammo

A favorite "magic bullet" discussion on these forums, cropping up daily.

Pick any mass produced bullet that feeds reliably and shoots accurately, and stop worrying about the trivial and nearly impossible to determine performance differences through any million variables and mediums.

Practice hits. Shot placement is the more important issue.
 
^The Army and FBI demonstrated a quarter century ago that unwise cartridge selection can get you killed. Reliable feeding, although an essential characteristic, is not enough alone. Adequate penetration is needed, ideally coupled with reliable expansion, but with a caliber of sufficient cross-sectional area to be effective in the absence of expansion, just in case.

Bullet placement is essential, too (perhaps even more important), but that's a seperate issue, and in no way obviates the need for one to wisely choose one's ammunition.
 
Maybe a little off topic, but why are you cycling that ammo so much? Either shoot it or don't. I have a few clips with my target ammo, but when it's time to carry I just switch out to one ready for defense.
 
Went to the range yesterday...

Fired about 120 rounds of mixed ammo (not "mixed" in any individual magazine, but quite a few different loads, all factory new or commercial reloads) from my 25+ year old CZ75 (no "B").

115 gr ULTRAMAX LRN reloads
115 gr Herters Nylon jacket
124 gr XTP's
115 gr JHP Remington +P
147 gr JHP Remington
115 gr Wolf (steel case) FMJ
At least three other mixed 115 gr in brass cases, all FMJ, could have been W's white box, Federal, etc.

Results: all fired normally, no FTF, no FTE, NO FT-ANYTHING...

BANG! BANG! BANG! etc.

This has been the case in almost every experience I can recall with this pistol, with the sole exception being the very 1st time I shot it with three new CZ magazines about five years ago... I had one stovepipe with the Wolf stuff, once. Never repeated.

As far as any one gun able to digest almost every ammunition varient out there I would say the steel CZ75 has to be at (or very close to?) the very top of the list. My next trip will be taking samples of just about every 9mm factory loading I can scrounge up and mixing them in a couple magazines and really see what it can handle in that test.

Cheers!

p.s. As far as the original question is concerned my preference is Hornady Custom 124 gr XTP or their Critical Duty or Critical Defense. Speer has a nice JHP loading as well. Just IMHO.
 
I don't know why someone hasn't started a company called "Best Ammo" since so many people are concerned with that. Unfortunately there is no best. However, I like Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot and Hornady Critical Duty.
 
Nosler Defense bonded 124g +p

If you've reloaded before, you should know Nosler. It's good stuff, I really trust their bullets. Hard to find in most big chain stores (actually I've never seen it in large chain stores) however, it's easy to find in online retailers. It's price isn't too bad either when you compare it to some of the other brands.
 
the "Best 9mm defense ammo for CZ 75" is ANYTHING. you won't have an issue with a CZ being picky. Have had 4 CZ's (down to two now, the Rami & PCR D) and have NEVER had an issue with any of them.
 
earlier ammo descrip error

marine6680— i mentioned the hardened bar in the Hornady Critical Defense rounds i have....that was incorrect. i do have the CD rounds which have the insert to avoid clogging, as you mentioned. The round i was thinking of was Barnes TacXPD that has the hardened bar inside the cavity. Aside from those 2, my only other defense round for my 9mm are Federal Hydro Shock.

Also, i fully agree with you & follow-up comments. That R.I.P. round looked and sounded every bit a gimmick, but the way to know is asking, Thanks.

i really like the Barnes, anyone else use these, i'd love to hear what others think. i keep one mag full of them, another, the Hornady CD. My other mags are for FMJ Range Peanuts.

I'm gonna have to look up the Noslers. i want to get some good brass that i can reload for the range!

Thanks for the feedback to an old-fart newbie!

—davey
 
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^^ like he said, they don't care about different shapes/weights/sizes of bullets. I have lots of 9mm guns, I loaded some 90gr HPs with a huge cavity meant for .380's, to my surprise, none of my guns will consistently ffed them, except for the CZ. NEVER had a jam, FTF, FTE, nothing, prob close to 5000 rounds.

my preference is critical defense from hornaday, or any loading that uses an FTX bullet. I hear the federal HST's are tough to beat, but have never used any. I like gold-dots too, but the penetrate a little less than the hornaday from my guns, but do expand beautifully, but don't prevent clogging to well. in the end, they all do well enough, maybe some have a very slight advantage over the other. I understand wanting to know what the best is, why not? heck out shootingthebull410 on youtube, he has fantastic video's on 9mm, pretty much any high end bullet you can think of.
https://www.youtube.com/user/ShootingTheBull410/videos
 
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