Best 9mm defense ammo for CZ 75

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dakota.potts

New member
When I first got my CZ 75, I picked up a box of hollow points with it. I picked up one that looked good and ended up with a pretty decent ammo - Federal HST 124 grain +P.

But they've been cycled into and out of my gun for a while now and they're starting to show signs of wear. I think it's about time to shoot them into a berm and get some new carry ammo.

Out of the CZ 75, I have a fairly significant barrel length to take advantage of heavier bullets, and I also have no worries about shooting +P or +P+ out of it for just self defense.

I'm looking for significant temporary cavity, maximum expansion and penetration, consistency and reliability, and possibly good performance through heavy clothing (leather winter jackets etc.) and barriers.

I looked at the Federal FBPLE which is a 115 grain +P+ with significant velocity. The biggest issue is too much expansion and not enough penetration. Also considering Federal HST 147 grain +P as the longer barrel and increased velocity could make the 147 expand more reliably than general.

I've also considered Winchester Ranger and some other standby law enforcement rounds and some newer less conventional rounds like the Liberty Civil Defense and the Lehigh Defense maximum Expansion. I like that the Liberty has a very nice initial wound channel and actually goes fast enough to defeat some soft body armor, but it seems lacking in penetration. I very much like the permanent cavity from the Lehigh Defense maximum expansion but it only tends to reach 9-10" penetration in gel.

What do you think based on information available to you?

No pressing need currently, just thinking ahead
 
I think you're over analyzing. First make sure the gun will fire 100 rounds of each flavor ammo, using all magazines. Then use gold dots 124 gr, no +, assuming they work, in your gun from any of your mags. Or hst, or about any top brand jhp. Train to be able to hit the target every time, under stress. The spot won't care which you used.
 
I've been using Underwood 124 grain +P+ in my TriStar T-120. I did put in a slightly stiffer Wolff spring in it but that's only in anticipation of starting to hand load. Once I develop a hot load that comes close to the Underwood offering I'll be shooting nothing but +P+ through it. Underwood also has a couple of 147 +p+ hollow point choices. I like Underwood because All the tests I've seen prove their speed claims are met.
 
I would never shoot +P+ out of any of my guns. There's no upper limit on the chamber pressure except whatever the manufacturer felt like loading. Why take the risk for such a marginal difference in performance?

Most JHPs will expand well from a 4+ inch barrel. I agree with Cougar - you're definitely overthinking. HST, Gold Dot, Critical Defense, PDX1, Ranger T... all good brands. Just run a few rounds to make sure they cycle, and you'll be fine.
 
Regarding +P+ and +P, CZ says they will warranty anything except +P+ (which I previously thought they would warranty). I know they're very overbuilt designs. I'll likely stick to standard pressures or +P/NATO pressures knowing that.

I'm sure that all of the above are good rounds. I practice pretty regularly with it including in competition. But given that good shot placement will only be enhanced by appropriate penetration, expansion, and barrier performance I'm still interested in the performance of the various rounds and if there is a clear or even generally accepted leader.
 
Both of my preferred carry loadings for my CZ-75B are +P+ loadings: Winchester RA9TA and Federal 9BPLE. While it is true that there is no SAAMI or CIP specification for +P+ ammo (the reason that most gun makers won't warranty its use), both of these loadings have been in production for a very long time and used with great satisfaction by a large number of police agencies. I find it extremely difficult to believe that mainstream ammo makers like Winchester and Federal would produce and market ammo to police departments that are unsafe in a good quality handgun.

Because my CZ is a robust, good quality handgun, I feel perfectly safe shooting these two specific loadings in limited amounts. While I acknowledge that continuous use would most certainly accelerate wear, I'm not feeding my gun a steady diet of +P+ ammo and I very highly doubt that the occasional box here and there (as in an average of less than 50 rounds a year) is going to make any noticeable difference. Also, I would not shoot +P+ ammo made by just anyone in just any old gun, as I mentioned earlier these two specific loadings have a long and positive track record of use in good quality handguns by numerous police departments.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with the 124 gr +P HST's the OP has been using other than the fact they can be hard to find sometimes. Really, just about any weight of Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot, Winchester Ranger, or Remington Golden Saber would probably be adequate regardless of standard pressure, +P, or +P+ designation. One of the nice things about a full-size gun like a CZ-75 is that the extra velocity afforded by the longer barrel can make decent performers out of loadings that would be marginal from a shorter barrel.
 
I don't carry my Sar B6 Hawk (CZ clone) but it does double-duty as a range plinker and home defense gun. At home one mag is always loaded with Hornady Critical Defense. I like the design concept behind this round and all the testing I have seen in 9mm indicates it should do the job.

Anything using the Hornady XTP hollow point bullet (which includes many brands) seems to perform well though.
 
Federal 147gr HST +P and Hornady Critical Duty 135gr +P would be my first two choices based upon your stated criteria. Both expand well w/o sacrificing penetration.
Tomac
 
Your first choice of ammo, Federal HST 124 grain +P, was one of the best out there. If you know it works I'd simply pick up more.
 
The CZ-75 was designed around the Sellier & Bellot (a Czech company) 124 gr. round. You're arguably going to get better results with that bullet weight than other weights, but I've never had problems with 115 gr. I saw no need to go heavier.

While 124 gr was the design weight, what makes the most sense is trying a lot of different rounds in a process of trial and error. Two guns off the same assembly line might perform differently with the same rounds... For self-defense, any of the brand-name (Federal, Hornady, etc.) 124 gr rounds would be a good place to start.
 
Another vote not to over-analyze your ammo choice. I use standard pressure Critical Duty, 124gr HST, and 124gr Gold Dot, and have no doubt that if I do my part, they will do theirs. Heck, I even have quite a bit of 147gr XTP loaded up lol!

My apologies if you've already seen this, but it's a good vid showing standard pressure ammo testing...

9mm Standard Pressure Ammo Test X 4: http://youtu.be/c8gm7ZTkDxc
 
I've been under the impression that the CZ-75 is designed and optimal with 124 gr NATO rounds. That is, is looking for accuracy and consistency.

I cannot contribute to our penetration aspect as I, simply, do not have a lot of knowledge in that area.

I think I am in the dark regarding you comment about 'showing signs of wear'. What do yo mean by that? How many rounds fired and what CZ parts are of concern?
 
Mine digests pretty much all 9mm ammo of various weights with gusto.

Personally, I'm a bit more accurate with 124gr. But I wouldn't be too concered with 147 or 115.

Stick with the better options for self defense ammo (Gold Dot, HST, Golden Saber...) and you should be just fine.
 
I'm on my phone so I can't really quote, but as to the question about signs of wear, I meant the bullets were showing wear, not the gun. Scratches, oxidation on the bullets, big dark rings from the chamber. I keep the gun loaded constantly and then unload it whenever necessary, including going to the range. I start to worry about the effects of humidity long term as well as the possibility of bullet setback
 
The +p federal HST is hard to find now, and I only see the standard pressure stuff anymore... But I don't see that as a bad thing.

With the new designs like HST +p is completely unnecessary.


I have seen comparison tests of the +p and the standard on a few newer loadings like HST... All had similar results. There is about a 50fps gain and a little more expansion of the +p and penetration of around 13-15 inches, but the standard pressure tended to penetrate to 15-16 inches.

So a little less expansion but better penitration into the sweet spot of 15-16 inches.

I currently run 124gr HST standard pressure... And I feel it is an excellent round. The 147gr version is good as well, but seems to offer little added performance in tests. It may do better in barrier tests, but I don't find them of high importance.

HST has pretty much become the defacto standard of optimal performance in a HP round... It performs highly in all categories of reliability, accuracy, expansion, penitration, and resistance to clogging.


Most of the other modern loads, like gold dot, the hornady critical line and others, perform similarly, so find one that you can get ample supply and test for function in your pistol... Then feel confident in the round you have chosen.
 
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frgood said:
I've been under the impression that the CZ-75 is designed and optimal with 124 gr NATO rounds.
Click to expand...

CZ did NOT design the 75 to comply with NATO weapon or ammo specifications. Back during the '70s, Czechoslovakia was part of the Communist Bloc and the Warsaw Pact. The CZ-75 was NOT designed for military use -- as the Soviets called the shots, and the Warsaw Pact didn't use 9x19 in any of their issue weapons. (The Czech military didn't even use a version of the 75 until relatively recently; the PCR, a compact version of the 75 was later used by the Police of the Czech Republic (i.e, the PCR.)

It was only much, much later (in the early 2000s) that the CZ-75 P-01 was designed to comply with NATO specs, and with some relatively recent design changes, it no longer complies -- and that NSN is no longer stamped on the gun.

CZ's management designed the 75 for export outside the Iron Curtain, but the West's embargo of most Communist products hampered that effort. They sold a lot to countries in the Middle East, to Israel, and to police nad small military units in Africa. Only Canada and West Germany really allowed some imports of CZ products, and quite a few made it to the U.S., as they were sold in stock (and customized forms) in Post and Base Exchanges in West Germany.
 
Hard to beat Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P. No amount of over analyzing will change that. :D
If you want any more performance than they provide you bought a gun in the wrong clambering for what you expect.
 
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