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Best 2nd Rifle?
- Thread starter hopeisnotastrategy
- Start date
Franken Mauser said:Why are you guys even arguing about the effectiveness of .270 Win, here?
The OP was seeking input on ANOTHER rifle to back up the .270, not a discussion of its efficacy.
Because he wrote this:
hopeisnotastrategy said:I had originally considered my 270 great for hunting elk, but I'm beginning to rethink that. 200 yards and under I think I'm fine, but I'll be in Montana and Colorado where the shots could be longer so I'm thinking I need an option with more energy at longer ranges.
That is the whole reason the discussion on the .270 Win was started.
In the real world the 7mm RM doesn't offer you anything better than the .270 unless you hand load. The .300 WM is only better than the .270/7mm RM as long as you're using 180 grain bullets or heavier with high BC's, making it a true LR rifle. The .338 WM is really a .30-06 on steroids, same trajectory as a 180 grain 30-06 but with a 250 grain bullet. The .338 WM isn't a true LR rifle, but really shines at 500 yards or less.
The OP is talking possibly about Africa, the .270 will take all the plains game a guy could want to shoot. So none of his choices are any better than his .270. If dangerous game is ever in the future he'd be better off with a 9.3X62, .375 H&H or Ruger than a 7mm RM, .300 Win, or .338 Win. However, none of those are true LR cartridges as well and best used inside of 400 yards.
FrankenMauser
New member
The last line of your second quote is the important bit, there:
"....so I'm thinking I need an option with more energy at longer ranges."
More energy.
Honestly, this sounds like just what he's looking for....
Even a 225 gr Interbond in .338 WM, fired at the same velocity as a 180 gr Interbond in '06, has 34% more energy at 500 yards and 39% more energy at 750 yards. (A generic 250 gr comes in at 34% / 30%.)
"....so I'm thinking I need an option with more energy at longer ranges."
More energy.
Honestly, this sounds like just what he's looking for....
Similar trajectory, sure (depending on the ballistic coefficients) ... but with more energy....
The .338 WM is really a .30-06 on steroids, same trajectory as a 180 grain 30-06 but with a 250 grain bullet.
...
Even a 225 gr Interbond in .338 WM, fired at the same velocity as a 180 gr Interbond in '06, has 34% more energy at 500 yards and 39% more energy at 750 yards. (A generic 250 gr comes in at 34% / 30%.)
Like I said it's on steroids, more energy and larger frontal diameter. There all things I like as well all that being said there are theories about minimums needed to kill efficiently. One thing is for sure, no one has came out with a definitive answer yet on energy and bullet diameter needed to kill game of any size.
As to weather or not the OP needs a .338 Win or not, that's a huge step up in felt recoil from a .270 Win. Which might require a heavier rifle, which isn't fun to carry in the mountains, or some other form of recoil mitigation to allow him to shoot it well might be in order. I'm not saying that the OP can't handle the .338 Win from the start, just that most people have to learn to shoot it well. I still remember going from the .338-06 and .35 Whelen to the .375 Ruger, talk about an eye opener. I've learned to shoot it, and have killed game with it, but I'm still far from proficient with it when comparing it to how well I shoot some of my other rifles.
As to weather or not the OP needs a .338 Win or not, that's a huge step up in felt recoil from a .270 Win. Which might require a heavier rifle, which isn't fun to carry in the mountains, or some other form of recoil mitigation to allow him to shoot it well might be in order. I'm not saying that the OP can't handle the .338 Win from the start, just that most people have to learn to shoot it well. I still remember going from the .338-06 and .35 Whelen to the .375 Ruger, talk about an eye opener. I've learned to shoot it, and have killed game with it, but I'm still far from proficient with it when comparing it to how well I shoot some of my other rifles.
Hi MarkCO,
Thanks for your wishing me success on my hoped-for elk hunt. I hope to be hunting in one of Utah's best elk units. I do have an excellent shot at being drawn. But since it is a random drawing, luck will play a part.
I know that you're aware of the huge, trophy bulls Utah has been producing. Here's an article about the best states for trophy elk, Utah ranking number 1: http://huntingthewest.wordpress.com/tag/best-state-for-trophy-elk/
Now back on point: I have recently become aware of Nosler's new line of Accubond Long Range Bullets. The 175 grain .284 offering looks impressive. I plan to do some testing with it. It does seem to hold substantial advantage over the .270. If it works well for me, I'll take my 7MM Rem Mag.
Thanks for your wishing me success on my hoped-for elk hunt. I hope to be hunting in one of Utah's best elk units. I do have an excellent shot at being drawn. But since it is a random drawing, luck will play a part.
I know that you're aware of the huge, trophy bulls Utah has been producing. Here's an article about the best states for trophy elk, Utah ranking number 1: http://huntingthewest.wordpress.com/tag/best-state-for-trophy-elk/
Now back on point: I have recently become aware of Nosler's new line of Accubond Long Range Bullets. The 175 grain .284 offering looks impressive. I plan to do some testing with it. It does seem to hold substantial advantage over the .270. If it works well for me, I'll take my 7MM Rem Mag.
^The author of that article makes some good points, but I think stretching out to a state gets you to Utah while looking at some trophy hot spots takes you elsewhere.
I thought you would be looking here: http://www.jicarillahunt.com/elk_hunting, but there are at least 10 or so other hot spots in the RM region that produce record class bulls.
I've been using the Accubond for a few years now. They work very well.
I thought you would be looking here: http://www.jicarillahunt.com/elk_hunting, but there are at least 10 or so other hot spots in the RM region that produce record class bulls.
I've been using the Accubond for a few years now. They work very well.
Hi Mark,
The San Carlos Reservation has excellent trophy hunting as well, but the cost is prohibitive.
Arizona has huge mule deer and elk. Drawing a tag in great areas is difficult at best.
I have hunted Utah for decades. I've been keeping a close eye on elk killed in various trophy areas. About ten years ago I almost used my bonus points in an area that has huge trophies. Before I did I learned of better areas that were harder to draw. But I'm glad I waited. The difficult part is drawing a tag. But I ought to have a good chance this year.
I'd rather have a chance at a once-in-a-lifetime trophy that kill a big bull in an area that's easier to draw.
I am going to give Nosler's new Accubond Long Range bullets. Thanks for your advice.
The San Carlos Reservation has excellent trophy hunting as well, but the cost is prohibitive.
Arizona has huge mule deer and elk. Drawing a tag in great areas is difficult at best.
I have hunted Utah for decades. I've been keeping a close eye on elk killed in various trophy areas. About ten years ago I almost used my bonus points in an area that has huge trophies. Before I did I learned of better areas that were harder to draw. But I'm glad I waited. The difficult part is drawing a tag. But I ought to have a good chance this year.
I'd rather have a chance at a once-in-a-lifetime trophy that kill a big bull in an area that's easier to draw.
I am going to give Nosler's new Accubond Long Range bullets. Thanks for your advice.
Sounds like a plan, and good luck.
Colorado rack sizes have been down the last 5 to 6 years, but they are coming back up. The animals we harvested this year were fatter and healthier than any I have seen. With the drought over and the water more available, 2014 should produce some new records. I can only assume that the same is true of Utah, MT and WY.
Colorado rack sizes have been down the last 5 to 6 years, but they are coming back up. The animals we harvested this year were fatter and healthier than any I have seen. With the drought over and the water more available, 2014 should produce some new records. I can only assume that the same is true of Utah, MT and WY.
Againstthewind
New member
rifle choices
There is still a drought for prime elk areas of Wyoming. I am praying for snow.
There is no substitute for field practice and woodsmanship, no matter what rifle choice, but I am all for stopping power be it from bullet choice or rifle choice. Elk are extremely tough. I had a bull broadside at 250 yards. I put three into him, a little high but still in the lungs, and he strolled off like it was nothing. My heart sank. He went about 100 yards before he went over, but he made it to some pretty thick brush and timber and I was afraid I wouldn't find him or worse I had just wounded him. I don't want to do that again. That was with a 30-06 with 180 grain bullets. I know people that use a .270 and have had a lot of success, but I vote for as much as you can handle for elk. I have shot a .338 and it makes me flinchy. I am not comfortable using that big yet. You still have to be able to hit something. The others I have no experience with.
There is still a drought for prime elk areas of Wyoming. I am praying for snow.
There is no substitute for field practice and woodsmanship, no matter what rifle choice, but I am all for stopping power be it from bullet choice or rifle choice. Elk are extremely tough. I had a bull broadside at 250 yards. I put three into him, a little high but still in the lungs, and he strolled off like it was nothing. My heart sank. He went about 100 yards before he went over, but he made it to some pretty thick brush and timber and I was afraid I wouldn't find him or worse I had just wounded him. I don't want to do that again. That was with a 30-06 with 180 grain bullets. I know people that use a .270 and have had a lot of success, but I vote for as much as you can handle for elk. I have shot a .338 and it makes me flinchy. I am not comfortable using that big yet. You still have to be able to hit something. The others I have no experience with.
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Againstthewind,
Shooting big calibers is not fun. I own a .47/70 Guide Gun. That thing flat hurts when shooting hand loads.
I think the 7MM Rem Mag is the best long range rifle ever invented. The reason is it's generally the largest caliber that most hunters can shoot w/o excessive recoil causing flinching. It will shoot a lot father than nearly are hunters are capable of hitting targets. Further, there is magic in .284 projectiles. Their enviable sectional densities and ballistic coefficients are hard to beat unless one wants to move up to where excessive recoil dominates.
Mark is right in that hunters owe it to animals that they intend to kill to put bullets in areas that will cause them to die quickly. What good is it to shoot & wound & never recover the biggest anything? If I am fortunate to even see a once-in-a-lifetime trophy elk, I won't shoot until my guide tells me to drop the hammer. And if I am drawn, I will practice until I am 100% confident that I can make a shot that my guide tells me.
Shooting big calibers is not fun. I own a .47/70 Guide Gun. That thing flat hurts when shooting hand loads.
I think the 7MM Rem Mag is the best long range rifle ever invented. The reason is it's generally the largest caliber that most hunters can shoot w/o excessive recoil causing flinching. It will shoot a lot father than nearly are hunters are capable of hitting targets. Further, there is magic in .284 projectiles. Their enviable sectional densities and ballistic coefficients are hard to beat unless one wants to move up to where excessive recoil dominates.
Mark is right in that hunters owe it to animals that they intend to kill to put bullets in areas that will cause them to die quickly. What good is it to shoot & wound & never recover the biggest anything? If I am fortunate to even see a once-in-a-lifetime trophy elk, I won't shoot until my guide tells me to drop the hammer. And if I am drawn, I will practice until I am 100% confident that I can make a shot that my guide tells me.
hopeisnotastrategy
New member
Sounds to me like your best second rifle is a 12 ga shotgun
I have a terrific shotgun. Beretta A400 Xtreme Unico. I hunt pheasant, dove, quail, and turkey with it.
I find it humerous that every time somebody asks a question such as these you get lots of people saying well (insert any weapon here) cant kill as good as (insert their preferred weapon here). I happen to know for a fact that a .22 lr pistol will kill a trophy elk (a relative of mine was arrested for poaching one with the given combination). It is like has been said thousands of times. It is all about shot placement. A .22 short in the right spot will kill faster than a 975 H&Weatherby magna-gernade miss. So hunting in my opinion is 98% shot placement not caliber or distance. So if i can make the perfect shot with a .243 Win I am better off than a shot i cannot make with a .30-06.
Now to answer the OP question. My Favorite weapon is my remington 700 adl in 7mm rem mag. It has outstanding ballistics even way out there, great selection of factory ammo and available components for hand loading.
That said i do have a .243 Win (that has killed an AZ elk), .300 H&H Mag, 7mm mauser, .30-30, .30-06, .45-70, .50, .357 mag, .45 acp and multiple .22 lr
But what do I know i am only a fat guy at home with his Ipad?
Now to answer the OP question. My Favorite weapon is my remington 700 adl in 7mm rem mag. It has outstanding ballistics even way out there, great selection of factory ammo and available components for hand loading.
That said i do have a .243 Win (that has killed an AZ elk), .300 H&H Mag, 7mm mauser, .30-30, .30-06, .45-70, .50, .357 mag, .45 acp and multiple .22 lr
But what do I know i am only a fat guy at home with his Ipad?
buck460XVR
New member
Again, for someone with a very limited collection of one rifle, the suggestion of the second rifle to be very similar, just seems to me to be duplication and not expansion. No need to fine tune when you have very little to tune. If the O.P. can afford to go to Africa to hunt dangerous game, he can afford to buy the proper gun at the time. Buying a caliber in hopes that will someday happen is not a wise investment to me. I would want something I could use now, that is not replacing what I already have.....unless I was getting rid of what I already have. If he already has a caliber fairly appropriate for what he is hunting now, than maybe he needs something for the range, varmints, Cowboy Action or just shootin' tin cans out back. Most times, when I see folks asking "what gun do I need now?'' they don't really need a gun for a specific purpose, or they would have a general idea of what gun they needed, at least when it comes to caliber. They ask cause they want a gun, without having a real purpose for one.
If the OP knows his need and true desires, the caliber will be an easy choice. The maker or platform not so much.
If the OP knows his need and true desires, the caliber will be an easy choice. The maker or platform not so much.
hopeisnotastrategy
New member
If he already has a caliber fairly appropriate for what he is hunting now, than maybe he needs something for the range, varmints, Cowboy Action or just shootin' tin cans out back. Most times, when I see folks asking "what gun do I need now?'' they don't really need a gun for a specific purpose, or they would have a general idea of what gun they needed, at least when it comes to caliber. They ask cause they want a gun, without having a real purpose for one.
If the OP knows his need and true desires, the caliber will be an easy choice. The maker or platform not so much.
Buck, you make an excellent point. I don't have anything specific in mind. I was just thinking of adding to the arsenal and wanted thoughts on a good logical next addition to a .270. I think I've actually decided. I am going to be hunting hogs soon so I think I'm going to get a 300 AAC AR-15. It will serve two purposes. I've been wanting a semi-auto hog gun and I've also wanted to build an AR for home defense purposes. Killing 2 birds with one stone.