Bersa, Makarov, CZ. Low cost high quality, but which one?

D

Dangus

New member
I'm looking at a few different options for a carry gun. I'm not particularly knowledgeable about handguns, rifles are my forte. I need something under 200 dollas because I'm poor right now. Anyway, I'm looking at the following:

Makarov .380
CZ-83 .380
Bersa Thunder .380 (Walther takeoff)

All of these are an easy to get and reload calibur, all of them are under 200, but other than that, I'm not sure about them.

I was talking to a guy yesterday who was telling me that some, if not all of these are blowback, not recoil operated, can anyone elaborate on that? Which one of these would be the best carry gun? Which one has the best normal-capacity magazines?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Oh, and if anyone knows a good source for 6.5x55 Swedish Mausers, please let me know, I really want to get an M-96, I've heard they're great.


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The Alcove

I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me

Compromising the right position only makes you more wrong.
 
Makarov .380
CZ-83 .380
Bersa Thunder .380 (Walther takeoff)

There's only one logical choice, the mighty Makarov! They're simple, robust, reliable, and very affordable. (They're not cheap in the sense that you get a lot for what you pay.) www.aimsurplus.com has lightly used military Bulgie Maks for $120. You can get unissued military Bulgies from www.jcarmory.com for $150. Mags are about $5 at shows, and spare parts are everywhere.

I'd forgo the 380 and get the 9x18 Mak. You can buy 1,000 rounds of new factory ammo for $100 or 500 rounds for half the price. And since Maks were designed for the 9x18 and ratty ammo, they're chew right through everything you care to feed them.

You can find a lot of information over at www.makarov.com

Bersas have a spotty reputation, some are 100% reliable while others are rats. It's the luck of the draw. They are lighter than Maks, but mags are much more expensive ($25), parts are harder to come by, and the mechanism is a lot more complicated. They're also more expensive, about $180 NIB at shows.

I don't consider the CZ83 an affordable pistol as they run $300, mags are about $35 each, and they're quite rare in the US. Finding leather holsters will also be a chore. They're well finsihed and reliable, but if you're truely poor, you're better off with the Mak.



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"Get yourself a Pistolet Makarova and lose that pricey western gadget."
 
Definitely a Bulgarian makarov. A great little gun at a great price. You should be able to pick one up for $129-139 at a show.
 
What is the stopping power difference between 9x18 and 9mm Parabellum(9x19?)?

Also, what is the difference between the 9x18 and the .380?

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The Alcove

I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me

Compromising the right position only makes you more wrong.
 
The 9x18 falls in between the .380 and 9x19 on the power scale, but is alot closer to the .380.

The best analogy would be the relationship of .38+P (9x18) to standard .38 (.380) and .357 Magnum (9x19) rounds.

That's not to say the 9x19 is eqivalent in power to the .357, rather it is much more powerful than the 9x18, just as the .357 is compared to the .38+P.

Clear as mud?

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Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!
 
I agree, go with a 9x18 Mak. 9x18 is like .380+P, and if you get the Cor-Bon 9x18 its like running 380+P+ so you get a more powerful round, and the .380 Mak has a bad rap on the reliability side. For the money, I've got to say the East German Maks are MUCH nicer than the Bulgarian ones in fit and finish, my EG Mak from AIM has THE nicest blued finish of any handgun I've ever seen! Mirror polished, deep blue, no tool marks. Slide to frame is nice and tight, very smooth action. The trigger is FANTASTIC. Of all my handguns, when I go to the range I always end up shooting the Mak more because it's just such a pleasure to shoot, really sweet, really accurate. It's comparable to a pre-war commercial Walther PP in every respect. They cost $159.95 for Excellent+ Condition from AIM.

[This message has been edited by BB (edited October 13, 2000).]
 
What's the deal though with recoil or blowback operated. This guy was telling me that these guns are all blowback to his knowledge, and that he likes recoil operated better. Does he know what he's talking about? If so, what is he talking about?

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The Alcove

I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me

Compromising the right position only makes you more wrong.
 
They are blowback, and there's not a thing wrong with blowback, HK P7s are blowback, and they are considered one of the finest pistols around. Fixed barrel in a blowback gun makes for a more accurate pistol. PP and PPKs are blowback as well. Sounds like another "gunstore authority" to me.
 
In my opinion, go for the Makarov, but in 9X18 Mak. Check out the website, Makarov.com. lots of usefull info on this great pistol.
45 Shooter
 
Get the Mak. I've owned the .380 and 9x18, and noticed no difference in recoil. I understand that the 9x18 is about 50% more powerful, but that's subject to debate.

If it's for CCW, you'll want a Bulgarian. The fixed sights on this model are not as bulky as the adjustable type.

These are great pistols - extremely reliable. You won't be disappointed.

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NRA/GOA/SAF
Former USMC

Oregon residents please support the Oregon Firearms Federation, our local "No compromise" chapter of the GOA. http://www.oregonfirearms.org
 
Longshot, East German Maks don't have bulky adjustable sights either.

I would strongly suggest you examine both an East German and Bulgarian model before you choose. There is a big difference in quality.

[This message has been edited by BB (edited October 13, 2000).]
 
Another one for the Mak. I have shot my buddies and we couldn't get it to jam. Premium defense ammo can be had from Corbon. And it is suprisingly FUN pistol to shoot. Price is right too.

Mike
 
go with the Mak 9x18,best gun out there for
the money, the east german has a better finish but the bulgarian shoots as good and
is just as reliable. Recoil with rubber grips is not noticable.I use makawrap(makarov.com)
 
Get the Makarov and get it in the original 9x18 mak chambering. You really won't have any problem finding ammo. I've had direct experience with 5 different Makarov pistols. 2 Russian, 2 E. German, and 1 Bulgarian. All were excellent pieces. Utterly reliable, accurate, rugged. The Mak is the best deal going in handguns today.
 
he also mentioned something about twitching with a blowback can create some sort of problem, but he also didn't elaborate on that much either, we didn't have a lot of time to talk...

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The Alcove

I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me

Compromising the right position only makes you more wrong.
 
OK, at least one minority opinion--not that there's anything at all wrong with Maks. I'd lean toward the CZ-83 if you can get it in your price range. I haven't owned one, but I'm impressed enough with my CZ-75B's quality and accuracy that I'd give CZ's .380 a chance.

Also, I think it holds 10 rounds within its larger grip, and the larger grip might make it a bit easier to shoot, too.

[This message has been edited by AndyP (edited October 13, 2000).]
 
The FEG PPK "clones", imported by KBI, are another option. Check the currently-active thread. This guy got his for $169. Mine has been a joy.

But I must admit, a Makarov sounds like an excellent option, too.
 
I would have submitted my $0.02 earlier to brag about my new FEG 380. But when I seen how cheap you can get makarov ammo I figured I'd just keep shut.
 
I agree with all the posts that the Mak is the best from a dollar efficiency and size viewpoint.

I have a CZ83 and it is one fine shooter. Pretty good lookin too. However it is too big for a .380 carry piece. If you wanted to carry one that size you could get a CZ75 in 9mm and have a lot more gun just about the same size. 10 rounds either way! BTW I have a compact CZ75 and it's a great gun for under 400 bucks.

Take a look at a SIG 230/232. If you buy right you can get it under 400 bucks also.

Whoops sorry - just reread your post and your pricepoint is $200. Stick with the Makarov.

[This message has been edited by JiminCA (edited October 13, 2000).]
 
CZ or Mak no problem. The Bersa have quality control problems. I was the external safety break while it was being operated. And that was supposed to be metal!

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The Seattle SharpShooter - TFL/GT/UGW/PCT/KTOG
 
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