Bersa .380 combat or other .380?

I like the idea of a Glock 42 as I am quite fond of my Glock 19 already. How well does it handle recoil compared to a similar sized 9mm? A lot of people keeping saying that the M&P 9c or the Shield are my best bets, but I had a chance to have one in hand the other day and wasn't overjoyed. The gun just doesn't fit my hand at all. I like the bodyguard, but DAO is just totally off-putting outside of a good wheel gun.
 
The Bersas are blow back operated, are they not? How does recoil and slide stiffness compare to the Beretta .380s? I can't get it out of my head that one can shop around a bit and find a used Beretta 84 or 85 for not much more than a new Bersa. I guess I'm revealing some prejudice towards Beretta.
 
I think it's a little sad that we fight like this on a public forum. So many forces try to limit our freedom and we need not give them any ammo to do so. I'm a young guy and I'd like the second amendment to remain around until I have children. So please, treat each other kindly no matter what your opinion is.
 
the G42 makes the .380 a breeze even for novice women shooters. there are plenty of youtube videos showing just this. the fit of the gun for will not be the same as for your fiancé unless you both have the same sized hands. you can add a grip sleeve to increase the girth if desired for yourself, even a magazine base plate that adds an extra round. the controls as about as simple as you can get from a semiauto.
 
Mitch, my son has a 42 and I've shot it several times. It's very easy to handle. Feel good in smaller hands of which I have. As for the Shield, I carried one for years but replaced it recently with a Walther PPS-M2 and am happy I did so. The Shield is a heck of a good gun, but not easy to rack. I've developed arthritis in my hands and found that the PPS-M2 racks a LOT easier and smoother. More solid as well. I feel it shoots every bit as well or better than my Shield. I've never shot the S&W Body Guard but I know a lot of folks who complain about the trigger and racking the slide on that gun.
 
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We all know that gun preference is based on ownership!

That is the definitive answer to any of these "which gun should I buy" threads. I personally have been carrying a Remington RM380 for about 18 months. So you know what my suggestion will be.
 
From to time to time I carry a Ruger LCP. It is a very nice gun but can be a little snappy when fired. Someone mentioned a Glock 42 which would be a wonderful choice. But I would look real hard at the Glock 43. You will find 9mm is much cheaper to shoot then 380. Plus a lot more bullet weight choices.
 
oldfart1944 said:
We all know that gun preference is based on ownership!

Or it may be that ownership in based on preference.

I have owned examples of the classic Walther PP in both .32 and .380 which were surprisingly uncomfortable to shoot, even with their size and weight. At least to me, the recoil of a blowback .380 feels very much like the recoil of a locked-breech 9mm of similar size and weight. So, as to a Bersa .380, I would rather have a sub-compact 9mm.

Locked-breech .380s have substantially less felt recoil than their blowback counterparts. I was astonished by the mild recoil when I first shot a S&W Bodyguard .380 and I continue to be delighted by the minimal recoil of my wife's Ruger LC380.
 
MMitch said:
I like the idea of a double stack .380, but how thick are they? I have trouble concealing double stack firearms in the summer months such as my glock 19.
Most double-stack .380s are about the same width or slightly wider than a G19. The .380 cartridge is only slightly smaller in diameter than 9x19, so the magazine is only marginally thinner, and the use of a metal frame and separate screw-on grip panels on most double-stack .380s results in a thicker grip than with a single-piece polymer frame.
TailGator said:
I am a little curious how the 9x19 is referred to in European countries where the 9x17 is referred to as "9 mm short."
9x19 or 9mm Parabellum, often abbreviated as 9mm Para, less frequently as 9mmP.

FWIW the term "9mm Long" is not used due to potential confusion with 9x20mm Browning Long, which is obsolescent but is still sporadically produced.
JERRYS. said:
the Glock 42 is very mild in the recoil department and its priced right even for working class folks.
I heartily concur, and I feel a little silly for having totally forgotten about this pistol when I wrote my earlier responses. :o
oldfart1944 said:
"For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction" That is a simple law of physics and explains recoil. So as long as we are using force to shove a bullet out of a barrel of a gun, there is going to be equal force in the opposite direction. Hence, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE RECOIL and this is a given. The only way to lesson recoil is to lesson the force.
The OTHER way to lessen recoil is to increase weight. Recoil is the result of acceleration in reaction to a force. Force = mass * acceleration, so to lessen the acceleration, you either decrease force or increase mass. :)

Additionally, much of the discussion in this thread concerns FELT recoil, which is affected by a bunch of added variables such as grip shape and action type.
TailGator said:
The Bersas are blow back operated, are they not? How does recoil and slide stiffness compare to the Beretta .380s?
Slide stiffness is comparable, but the Bersas are a little easier to operate because there's more surface area to grasp; this is an aspect where the Beretta-trademark open-top slide is at a disadvantage.

I have not shot them back-to-back to compare felt recoil.
 
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Don't stick your nose up at a Makarov if looking at the Bersa size guns.

It is a blowback as well, but I have found it much less fatiguing than the old Bersa. It has enough weight and excellent grip geometry to distribute recoil nicely. They are very shootable and compact, and are frankly a much better built and simpler gun than the pot metal Bersa. And there are like-new unissued Bulgarian military Makarovs out there now for the same or less price as a Bersa. It's seriously worth considering, check them out.
 
My buddy handed me his LCP at the range and I pulled off some very nice groups on first try. I have size-challenged hands, but it was not difficult to handle, aim or control.
good luck
 
Model12Win said:
Don't stick your nose up at a Makarov if looking at the Bersa size guns.
One potential sticking point is capacity.

Commercial Makarovs were offered in a double-stack version, but they're uncommon in general, and even more uncommon with the original 12-round magazine rather than the Clinton AWB 10-round version. Also, spare magazines for these pistols are notoriously scarce and pricey, again particularly the 12-round ones. And then there's the matter of the tiny and fragile commercial Mak sights. :(

Although myself and others have been suggesting lower-capacity pistols, due to the dearth of new-production double-stack options, the standard single-stack Mak remains pretty doggone large and heavy in relation to its capacity.

Makarovs are certainly cool pistols though, epitomizing Soviet weapons design philosophy at its best—inexpensive, simple, easy to operate and service, and unbelievably rugged, albeit a bit crude and clumsy. :cool:

Just as an amusing footnote, standard single-stack Mak magazines will fit and function in the double-stack pistols due to the latter's unusual 2-into-1 merging magazine design. :) This does, of course, largely negate the higher-capacity pistol's advantages.
 
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Ok, so I've decided on the Polish P-64. Now I need dimensions and where to buy a decent one from. The CIA imports on gun broker look really rough and for the price I don't want to have to do a bunch of bluing work on the gun.

So if you're a makarov guy please tell me everything I should know.
 
MMitch said:
...I've decided on the Polish P-64. Now I need dimensions and where to buy a decent one from. The CIA imports on gun broker look really rough and for the price I don't want to have to do a bunch of bluing work on the gun.

So if you're a makarov guy please tell me everything I should know.
The P-64 is a nifty Cold War artifact that's patterned after the Walther PPK. Like that gun, it's slim and easily concealed, but somewhat heavy for its size due to its all-steel construction. Also like the PPK, it has a reputation for being somewhat uncomfortable to shoot, and it's endowed with the heaviest double-action trigger pull this side of the Russian Nagant revolver. (I haven't shot one, so I can't attest to the former, but I can attest to the latter.)

As with all surplus firearms, condition is always a risk, unless you encounter a seller advertising "Like New" or "Unissued" condition. I haven't been monitoring the P-64 market so I don't know if any major sellers are offering such pistols right now. If not, the best bet for finding a high-condition gun is to monitor online auctions and gun shops that specialize in historic firearms.

FWIW in case you haven't already discerned this, the P-64 is NOT a Makarov; it's a distinct Polish design that happens to fire the 9x18 Makarov cartridge. The true Makarov pistol, aka Pistolet Makarov or PM, was a larger and higher-capacity pistol used by the armed forces of the USSR, East Germany, and Bulgaria, and was also imported commercially from Russia before importation was banned. The Russian commercial models were also offered in .380 and (as I previously discussed) in a 12/10-round double-stack version.

Speaking of the 9x18 Makarov cartridge, it's a decent cartridge in its own right, and is somewhat more powerful than .380, but it's not available in a very wide variety of loadings, and big-box discount stores often don't stock it. One issue that sometimes catches shooters off-guard is that most commercial 9x18 ammo is steel-cased, and an increasing number of public ranges are banning steel-case ammo due to its tendency to ricochet, start fires, and damage range equipment. Brass-case copper-jacketed lead 9x18 IS available, but is scarce in some local areas, so you may have to mail-order. If you're like many urban dwellers and you have to shoot at public ranges, I suggest checking their policies before you buy any ammunition, or make any assumptions regarding how much it will cost!

Lastly, I'll be honest—if what I've read and been told about the P-64 is true, your SO is unlikely to enjoy firing it any more than the S&W Airweight.
 
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The P64 is a good gun, but I would reload if I had it

9mm MAK is getting harder and harder to come by

It used to be much cheaper than 9X19

There are also limited offerings in SD ammo
 
dean1818 said:
The P64 is a good gun, but I would reload if I had it... 9mm MAK is getting harder and harder to come by
And if you're not familiar with the cartridge from a reloading standpoint...
  • Despite being named 9mm, it actually uses a 9.2mm/0.365" bullet rather than the standard 9mm/0.355" caliber bullet. This means that commercial bullet selection is limited, and if you roll your own, you'll need dedicated molds.
  • Once-fired brass is relatively scarce, so you're most likely going to be scrounging for your fired cases on every range trip (like folks who shoot 10mm Auto, 7.62x25 Tok, 9mm Largo, 7.65 Para, etc).
 
oldfart1944 said:
The Polish P 64 is not drop safe compliant!
In what way? Are you discussing a government compliance test, or some particularly unsafe aspect of the design?

I'm not trying to belittle you—I'm legitimately curious. I've not seen this concern brought up about the P-64.
 
I've also heard that the slide tends to bite people. Any workaround on that. I've got pretty large hands and I'm worried that this thing will eat me alive.
 
MMitch said:
I've also heard that the slide tends to bite people. Any workaround on that.
The similar Walther PP/PPK series usually won't bite you if you use the thumbs-down or "wraparound" grip technique used by many DA revolver shooters, rather than the thumbs-up or thumbs-forward grip often taught for shooting autoloaders. This shifts the web between the thumb and forefinger of the trigger hand further down and away from the slide.
 
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