Beretta Pico 380 is +P rated?

Lol, Forget the darn PlusP nonsense and focus on build quality. IMO even a standard 380 round fired in a Mouse gun of any kind is high Pressure. Certainly a big explosion going on in a 10 ounce firearm.

Each to his own, but I personally will not buy a pocket 380 gun again with a "aluminum chassis", cheap rails, cheap take down pins etc. I will choose stainless Steel over aluminum every time.
The OP was talking about the Pico. Ok, I bought the Pico NOT because of any fact that I specifically shoot Plus P or hot loads, but because of quality placed into the firearm.
I am more concerned with high volume round count and longevity. I did not want to go the route I had taken before of crack frames, split rails, broken frame pins etc.
I did not want a throw a way pistol that just had to be repaired or replaced on a continuous basis. I wanted a milder shooting 380. The Pico has exceeded all my expectations and then some.
Maybe this is answering what I believe the OP was alluding to in his quest about the Pluse P question for the Pico or maybe I am wrong and he just wanted to go after the Plus P notation in the manual.
 
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My current firearms in .380 include a Gen 1 and Gen 2 LCP, A P238HD, and a P238 Extreme with an alloy frame. Personally I think Carl has made his point very well that it is not about Plus P or SAAMI but about that he likes the solid construction of the stainless steel barrel and chassis of the Pico. That makes perfect sense to me. It is what I love about the 238HD but that steel exacts about a 4+ ounce penalty. That Beretta was able to build with steel at a small weight penalty is a plus. For carry with low volume shooting, perhaps it doesn’t matter. For peace of mind with regular shooting, his argument makes perfect sense to me. Like he said, people with other opinions are free to choose whatever they like. I plan on taking a new look at the Pico but I must say that small butt and the overall look is not overly appealing to me. The steel chassis is.
 
Ok, being that, experience wise, I'm clearly outgunned here (yeah, pun definitely intended :D), I'm gonna add my 2 cents some other way: let's talk numbers.

Beretta is an Italian company (I'm sure none of you knew that ;)). Italy is a CIP member.
Now, there's a difference between CIP and SAAMI, which is that, while SAAMI's guidelines are just that, and their compliance is voluntary, CIP rules are of mandatory compliance for all member countries.

So, CIP establishes that every gun manufactured by a member country must be proofed at 130% it's caliber's pressure.

That means, for a .380's normal operating pressure of 21500 psi, any CIP gun for that caliber must be proofed at 27950 psi.

Meanwhile, while not mandatory, SAAMI established a +P standard at +10% or less the cartridge's normal pressure, so, if somebody wanted to reload .380 cartridges to +P levels, they should load them to 23650 psi at the most. That is, at least, 4300 psi less than the pistol's rating.

So that means that, yes, in fact, every beretta, and every other handgun that's been manufactured under CIP's rules, is, in fact, +P rated, even if, worst case scenario (if not explicitly +P rated), at a lower safety margin.
 
BOOGIE the oily,
While I agree with your general train of thought and conclusion of the robust nature of the Pico, we must be clear that the Pico is made is the U.S.A. and not Italy. There is no CIP proof cartouche on the gun.
 
I don’t think SAAMI publishes it but I *think* a proof load in the US is generally 150% of the SAAMI maximum. If that is so, it would make a proof load for .380 acp 32,250 psi. I don’t think that in any way means a Pistol is “rated” for anywhere near that kind of pressure.
 
Here is a link with a few manufacturers of 380 ammo. Some clearly publish a Plus P rating for their ammo. I see that Buffaloe Bore has the same bullet and for two different loads, one standard and one Plus P. Each producing different FPS and muzzle foot lbs.
As I mentioned, Precision One 380 also now has a Plus P round.

Years ago, I shot some ammo that was clearly a Hot loaded round. I knew instantly it was, and in five rounds completely cracked the frame of the aluminum gun I was shooting. I put the ammo aside and never used it, however, I later pulled it out and shot the remainder thru the Pico with no problems and of course less recoil. Maybe just a coincidence, I do not know. Regardless, I now will only buy a pocket gun made of stainless steel over Aluminum.
Here is the chart. I would look at the Buffalo Bore JHP 90 gr standard load vs Plus P.
I make no claims to whether they are truthful or disingenuous. I make no claims that one is better than the other. I am simply posting the link.
My Personal opinion and repeat, only my Personal opinion is, If a manufacture say's to not shoot Plus P ammo then I won't regardless of if Sammi has a listing or not.
If they state that I can shoot it, then I have no problem with ammo listed in the chart below, and would only shoot it infrequently and not as a standard range ammo.

http://www.ballistics101.com/380_acp.php
 
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In all fairness, I think we should note that Ruger does specifically warn against shooting Plus P ammo in the LCP.
 
In the early days of the 380 makers weren't sure that the gun could be blowback or that it should be locked breech.
I once had a Mauser HSc ,blowback, Remington M51,delayed blowback , and a Cz 24, locked breech . :rolleyes:
 
Some clearly publish a Plus P rating for their ammo.
Click to expand...
No they don't. Some, or probably most boutique ammo producers falsely use the term +P as advertising hype trying to convince the unknowing that they can turn their 380 into a 9MM power house. They are either stretching the pressure to the absolute SAAMI limit, or producung ammo beyond industry standard pressure.
About SAAMI
The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI) is an association of the nation's leading manufacturers of firearms, ammunition and components. SAAMI was founded in 1926 at the request of the federal government and tasked with:
Creating and publishing industry standards for safety, interchangeability, reliability and quality
Coordinating technical data
Promoting safe and responsible firearms use
SAAMI Strategic Goals
Be the leading global technical resource regarding firearms and ammunition manufacturers' issues.
Maintain technically correct standards for terminology, performance, interchangeability and safety.
Create a forum for the introduction of appropriate new standards and policies.
Publicize pertinent SAAMI policies and standards.
Increase our public visibility as "the experts" in our fields.
Our Mission
To Create and Promulgate Technical, Performance, and Safety Standards for Commerce in Firearms, Ammunition, and Components
Click to expand...
 
Whether manufacturers make +P ammo or not, one could easily reload +P ammo at home, it's just simple math.
My question would be (and I apologize for the hijack): being that a +P 9mm round is pretty much filled to the brim with powder, is there enough room in a .380 case to make a +P round?
 
mete said:
In the early days of the 380 makers weren't sure that the gun could be blowback or that it should be locked breech.
Click to expand...
Methinks it has to do with knowledge of the engineering trade-offs rather than an inability to decide. ;)

Blowback firearms are mechanically simpler and therefore cheaper to manufacture. The modern movement towards locked-breech .380s has to do with minimizing size while mitigating felt recoil and slide operating force; locked-breech operation tends to reduce the latter two.
BOOGIE the oily said:
Whether manufacturers make +P ammo or not, one could easily reload +P ammo at home, it's just simple math.
Click to expand...
Ummm, exceeding published load data seems to me to be a recipe for a damaged firearm and potential personal injury!

DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!! :eek:
 
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My question would be (and I apologize for the hijack): being that a +P 9mm round is pretty much filled to the brim with powder, is there enough room in a .380 case to make a +P round?
Click to expand...
So you have pulled down a factory 9MM to measure the powder?
Depending on the powder, you can fit enough powder in a 380 case to turn your gun into a bomb!
 
Cheapshooter said:
So you have pulled down a factory 9MM to measure the powder?
Depending on the powder, you can fit enough powder in a 380 case to turn your gun into a bomb!
Click to expand...

I did, actually. A Magtech FMJ.
Either way, that's what I wanted to know. Thank you. I wasn't sure, even with the .380 being a lower pressure round than the 9mm, that there was enough room. :)

@ Carmady: if you end up with 0 fingers, you didn't make one mistake, you made 2. The second one being to try an untested round holding the gun with your hands.
 
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