Beretta 92fs, or Taurus 92, or Girsan 92fs copy

Question: What is the definition of "heirloom quality" precisely?

I ask because I've seen plenty of folks on forums show off all manner of firearms, including the el cheapo guns of decades past like Iver Johnson, Charter Arms, as well as various old European brands I've never even heard of before, claiming that they were family heirlooms, yet apparently nowadays only premium brand firearms can be heirlooms, and only if they're all metal.

Yes, apparently a Glock 17 can never be a heirloom because elitists on the interwebs say so. Nevermind that their grandfather's treasured S&W Victory / Model 10 service revolver was basically the Glock 17 of its time, it's a heirloom based on their arbitrary definition.

So who's to say that future generations won't be fawning over the "superior craftsmanship" of Glocks, M&Ps, SRs, SDs, XDs, etc compared to whatever Hand Phasers, Blasters, or Phased Plasma pistols they take for granted?

"Oh man, I'll tell ya, they don't make 'em like they used to... Just look at that beautiful, injection-molded, CNC machined, teflon-coated masterpiece. Back in those days they used real DuPont Glass-Filled Nylon frames, Alloy Steel slides, and MIM. Nowadays all we've got are these cheap 3D printed poly-alloy frames, moon metal slides, and whatever newfangled gizmos make them so efficient. Yep, these things aren't heirloom quality."
 
Carl the Floor Walker said:
"It’s Not Just a Name, Folks

I assert that Taurus products as a whole are not intended to be heirloom grade guns. As a company, their lack of QA/QC is legendary among serious users. Just because a company is using Beretta machinery in a Beretta factory and with Beretta plans does not mean they will build a gun like Beretta. "
https://www.survivalsullivan.com/beretta-92fs-vs-taurus-pt92/

I would say it comes down to what your budget is. For myself, there is no question to it, I would get the Beretta. Or save up for the difference. Too just buy a Taurus now, and then later kick yourself for not getting the real thing, could just cause you frustrations and actually more money.
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After twenty years of ownership, I'm pretty sure I'll not regret buying the better pistol, which in this case is the Taurus. Slide mounted levers are a poor design. As an avid shooter with many "boutique" marques (Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, Les Baer, Springfield Armory Customshop, HK, etc) I am not one to promote second tier products, and I'll flat out tell anyone my PT92AFS is a fine weapon I'm proud to own.
 
I bought the decocker kit from Beretta's website. Pretty easy install and now I don't worry about it being a safety.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
Carl the Floor Walker said:
"It’s Not Just a Name, Folks

I assert that Taurus products as a whole are not intended to be heirloom grade guns. As a company, their lack of QA/QC is legendary among serious users. Just because a company is using Beretta machinery in a Beretta factory and with Beretta plans does not mean they will build a gun like Beretta. "
https://www.survivalsullivan.com/beretta-92fs-vs-taurus-pt92/

I would say it comes down to what your budget is. For myself, there is no question to it, I would get the Beretta. Or save up for the difference. Too just buy a Taurus now, and then later kick yourself for not getting the real thing, could just cause you frustrations and actually more money.
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Again, another one who believes that every single firearm purchased by someone has to be a family heirloom that is passed down for generations and not something that should be enjoyed by the person who bought the gun in his lifetime.

I can only imagine the mental image some have when they buy a top teir brand gun vs a cheaper clone. It must be like:

An old man in his last days gets up from his deathbed, hobbles over to his closet, pulls out a dusty box with said gun inside and hands it to his 45 year old son while telling him, "I purchased this heirloom grade a long time ago and kept it unfired so that I could one day give it to my son so he could keep it unfired and give it to his son because it's well known guns are meant to be looked at and shot little."
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It makes no sense, not when I've read so many posts on forums like this where someone buys a pistol, didn't like how one time he got a light primer strike on steel case ammo, declared the gun to be junk, sent it in for warranty, got it back and immediately sold it. Yeah, cuz for those types they really need heirloom quality.
 
Lol, You really missed the point. It is not whether you believe in passing a gun down to future generations, but the fact that it is the quality difference. It is not just because it is Heirloom quality, but the fact that it is Heirloom quality.

There are certain guns I would go cheap on, but this particular gun, I would go with Beretta. And believe it or not there are some folks that do pass down their firearms to future generations. And there are many folks that post pictures and articles of fine arms passed down. And many that seek out older Beretta's as well as other great firearms.
Your comment about some owners that get a failure on a certain firearm and then send it back is true, but not sure what that has to do with this topic.

Ex. Two gun same class. One is plus p rated one not. I would prefer the plus p rated but not because I shoot plus p.
Hey, you would get the Taurus, I would get the Beretta. No problemo.

Actually I would get the Beretta PX4 compact.
 
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Aguila Blanca said:
Does anyone know where Girsan puts the safety? Slide, or frame?
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It's on the slide. The only Beretta 92 clone with a frame-mounted safety is the Taurus PT92 because the PT92 is actually built based on the blueprints for the original Gen 1 Beretta 92.

https://eaacorp.com/guns/handguns/regardmc-467

Long story short, Taurus actually bought a Beretta Plant in Brazil which was previously built to supply the Brazilian Military, (Brazil isn't an import-friendly country) but once the contract was up Beretta closed up shop. Taurus purchased said plant, including all of the parts, tooling, plans, within. By that point, the patent on the Gen 1 Beretta 92 had expired, so Taurus started producing it themselves, along with a few updates of their own.
A lesser-known fact is that many of the Beretta 92s later iterations were based on the PT92, including the 92FS and 92A1. Seriously, look it up, the squared off trigger guard, beefed up slide/frame, picatiny rail, and 17 round magazine actually originated with the Taurus PT92.
 
Love my Italian 92FS and have absolute faith in it. The relatively small price difference between them makes it easy to choose Beretta.

If they weren't twice as much right now, I'd go for the Beretta M9A3 actually.
 
Likewise there are excellent Canik Turkish made near clones of the Walther P99AS with decocker (almost unique among striker fired pistols), but the original German Walther is only a bit more, and is my choice.
 
I have complete confidence in my Italian 92FS. 30,000+ rounds though it and it has never once malfunctioned. Not once.
I picked it up new for about $475 perhaps 5 years ago.
I'd consider Beretta 92FS long before I'd buy the Taurus 92.
 
I've never owned a Taurus and find the few folks I know/knew that own a Taurus to be non gun folks.

Beretta I've owned several. In some cases I didn't like the design or feel but they, exception is 22LR, never failed to go bang or cycle properly. Workmanship is very consistent from piece to piece.

IMO the most consistent quality of any mass produced pistol.
 
I have both. It's obvious which has a better fit and finish, which is more expensive, and which will command more value down the road.

The big question is how many magazines do you want for it? Surplus USGI 92FS mags are very plentiful and pretty cheap. Mags may become extremely cheap as the Sig P320 replaces the 92FS. PT92 mags are harder to find and a little more expensive.

So if you want, say, 10 mags for either, it may be less expensive in the long run to get the 92FS.

As far as the recent import 92S, they have a Euro style heel release and will only take certain mags. They are generally more expensive than typical 92FS mags. Add $10 extra per mag that fit 92S models and the price gap closes pretty quickly between 92FS and 92S.
 
745SW said:
I've never owned a Taurus and find the few folks I know/knew that own a Taurus to be non gun folks.
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Yeah, most folks who aren't into firearms have the advantage of basing their choices on firearms they've actually handled personally at a gunshop as opposed to rampant ignorant opinions they've seen spammed incessantly on the internet about how somebody's father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate once owned a Taurus which violently exploded into shrapnel when dry fired.
 
Used Beretta for the win.

I own Taurus and Beretta firearms. The Taurus was a drama queen but is now reliable. The Beretta started off reliable and has stayed that way.

I also got to see Beretta 92 pistols get used good and hard in the service. Many thousands of rounds downrange and little/no drama.

Beretta just is of higher quality. Both in "Oh, nicely done!" and in the quantitative MTBF (mean time between failures). I would trust a used Beretta given the once-over by me over any new Taurus or most any other 92 clone.
 
I don't think most people's issues with Taurus revolve around the PT92. There is quite a variation of Taurus 92 models in material and finish styles Beretta just doesn't offer. I like the brushed stainless PT92.

The barrel/feed design of the Beretta 92/PT92 minimizes a lot of feeding issues. I'd be surprised if a clone had jamming issues that couldn't be solved with new springs unless it was grossly out of spec.
 
Folks will inevitably tell horror stories of how their father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate once owned a Taurus which violently exploded when dry fired, but I have actual, firsthand experience with a total of five Taurus firearms which have all been fine.
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Or folks will tell first hand accounts of an extended hang fire in a Taurus revolver that created a momentarily scary situation. But you know all accounts of issues on the internet are wrong so be sure to head them off with a wonderful straw man argument and accusation of appeal to false authority.

I think Taurus can and does build decent quality firearms. All accounts I have heard is they have good customer service when things go wrong.

Due to individual first hand experience I will never personally own another.
 
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Thank you everyone you helped me decide. I will search for a used Beretta 92s first and if that fails then a used 92fs.

Gary
 
If you want a Beretta 92FS, make sure it's an FS. Lots of 92S circulating. Nothing wrong with 92S but they take different magazines with a release towards the bottom of the grip as opposed to the thumb release on 92FS.

You can get surplus 92S for ~$300. Which is about what you'd pay for a Taurus PT92.
 
My advice in this case would be to get a used Beretta 92FS.

I noticed in the OP that the choices were Beretta, or 2 guns that look like the Beretta (no CZ, Sig, Glock etc listed). So you want a gun that looks like the Beretta... may as well go get the real thing. Otherwise, you're probably going to want the "real" one anyway, later on.
 
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