Beretta 70-71: Cool?

"As far as Mossad, I thought the Berettas were used in response to Munich. The Mossad used a reduced charge round so silencers weren't necessary. And, in the event that an agent was discovered, he could claim the .22 was just a target pistol."

While Berettas were sometimes used Post-Munich, they were in Israeli service before that. As I said, these pistols were in wide use throughout the Israeli government, and would have been available to Mossad agents in Europe via El Al or an Israeli embassy. And silencers were used when required. The whole "reduced charge round" thing is pretty bogus, and acknowledged as such in Israeli circles. And if one were caught with a weapon at/near the scene of a murder, or in some other illegal situation, would it really matter whether it was defense weapon or a "target pistol"???
 
VERY NOICE guys. I might have to seek one. Sorry if I sound like an ass but there aren't many new .22s that appeal to me. I'm specifically looking for one that is relatively small and light but still shootable. Not looking for a big gun like a Ruger or Browning.
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This is an excellent reason to seek one out, in my opinion -- the same reason I did. I just recently became a major fan of this gun, due to the CAI imports. Previously, I've been unsatisfied with the "full frame" .22's -- they just aren't very size efficient for the caliber.

The other problem is that current-production mid-sized .22's tend to have "extremely" service-grade, DA/SA triggers. The Beretta 71 is just a different animal -- shootability is very high and it can perform genuine, accuracy-requiring work.

Sights and sight radius are small, but designed well enough to be effective.

This picture illustrates the problem with the "full frame" .22's:


By comparison:
 
YES, they are not efficient. The word "chunkly" comes to mind.

I want one of these svelte, historic Beretta .22s. No doubt, I'm buying one soon.
 
Metric said:
Sights and sight radius are small...
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Sight radius isn't too bad if you get one of the longer-barreled models, or even better, one of the 71/72/74A two-barrel sets. :)

The 74 was also sold in a two-barrel version, but the goofy forward front sight location gives it a ludicrously short sight radius with the 3.5" barrel installed. :(

Couple of other points of discussion...

The 70 Series pistols were originally sold with a left-for-safe, right-for-fire crossbolt safety at the upper rear of the grip, but Beretta changed over to a more conventional down-for-fire frame-mounted lever safety in 1969. Most shooters prefer the lever-safety pistols but several of the nifty early models only came with the crossbolt.

All use a magazine release button on the lower LH side of the grip frame.

There are two lengths of magazine: an 8rd short-bodied magazine, and a longer 9 or 10rd magazine (the 10rd is more commonplace). The "short grip" pistols (70S/71/72/75) accept both types, although the long ones will protrude. OTOH the "long grip" pistols (70T/73/74/76/101/102) will usually only accept the short magazines if the base plate is modified.
 
Well thank you gang! Can anyone tell me what the "model 70S" is? I see one I am looking at but I'm not sure if it's different from the ones the Israelis used. Thanks!
 
Model12Win said:
Can anyone tell me what the "model 70S" is? I see one I am looking at but I'm not sure if it's different from the ones the Israelis used.
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The 70S was a later version tailored to comply with the 1968 GCA. It has a 3.5" barrel and short grip frame like most versions of the 71, but used a steel frame and a screw-adjustable rear sight, and was usually sold with thumbrest grips. The 71 generally had an alloy frame, a fixed rear sight, and flat grips, although Beretta sold a few of them in the late 1980s with an adjustable sight and thumbrest grips. Additionally, the 70S—being a later version—is only found with the lever safety, whereas the 71 may be found with the crossbolt.
 
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The one question I have is to what degree are the frames interchangeable between the different calibers? The pistol was made in .22, .32, and .380. I know the .380 pistols had steel frames, versus the aluminum frames of the .22 and .32.

I'm wondering if the grips and small parts are interchangeable between pistols.
 
Sure seems to be a lot of negative posts on this subject, and lots of recommendations for other guns.....but the Beretta's are a worthy pistol. I have an older one and it works just fine and no problems. A guy can look at every little aspect of a firearm until he finds something negative, but don't pay attention to all that. No real reason for you not to seek one out if that's what you want.
 
Model12Win said:
Is the 70S anyone better or worse than a standard 71?
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It's really a matter of opinion. The 70S is slightly heavier due to the steel frame and it uses a more intricate adjustable rear sight. It also can't be had with the early crossbolt safety, if you're one of the seemingly rare folks who appreciate this oddball feature. :)
John C said:
I know the .380 pistols had steel frames, versus the aluminum frames of the .22 and .32.
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I can't comment on the frame question other than to recommend the same thing that jonnyc did, but FWIW the .22 and .32 variants also came with steel frames in some instances. I recommend carefully reviewing the Beretta Forum FAQ link that myself and jonnyc have posted; the variations get complicated!
 
Sure seems to be a lot of negative posts on this subject, and lots of recommendations for other guns.....but the Beretta's are a worthy pistol. I have an older one and it works just fine and no problems. A guy can look at every little aspect of a firearm until he finds something negative, but don't pay attention to all that. No real reason for you not to seek one out if that's what you want.
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IMO, it's just the standard reaction to buying an older, out-of-production pistol over the current-production.

But there are excellent reasons for doing so. There is a hole in the present-day market.

You say you want excellent full-spectrum ammo reliability from standard vel. up through hyper vel? And you want a crisp SA trigger comparable to the target-type pistols? But it has to be of a size and weight you can easily carry concealed? With overall accuracy and shootability sufficient for small game at practical distances?

The answer is usually something like "dream on" or "don't we all." But they were made, and it's not even difficult or expensive to get one. You just have to know what you want.
 
Here is a link to the book. I am on my second copy. I wore the first one out. Some will try to tell you that the Israelis never had hit squads but the second printing of the book shows the Israeli government did admit to having hit squads during the 1970s.

https://www.amazon.com/Vengeance-True-Story-Israeli-Counter-Terrorist/dp/0743291646

I have tried to find a model 70 off and on for years but never did. You might want to consider the Bersa Thunder 22. It is close in shape and has an alloy frame with a weight around 20oz IIRC. I had one and they are good little pistols.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-Pistols/BI.aspx?Keywords=bersa+thunder+22
 
I have tried to find a model 70 off and on for years but never did. You might want to consider the Bersa Thunder 22. It is close in shape and has an alloy frame with a weight around 20oz IIRC. I had one and they are good little pistols.
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Starting about a year ago, there was a big influx of surplus 71's from Israel, with a fake (but easily removed) silencer attached, which was required for import restrictions. This resulted in literally pages of "choose your favorite 71" on gunbroker, etc. -- going price for these was $250, and the availability also put downward pressure on the price of the non-surplus examples. 2016 was a great time time buy.

There is still a reasonable (but much smaller) selection on gunbroker, but the typical price is now in the low-300's if you want to "pick your favorite," but one can still find very sub-300 prices for a generic surplus copy.

Condition is typically carried a lot, shot a little (my own experience), which means a fairly beat-up finish, but a shiny bore and a tight fit. IMO, they make a great cerakote project -- I will prob. have another one done in January.
 
The Beretta 70S in .22LR is an outstanding pistol, and yes, the Israelis have used the 70S as part of its undercover and assasination ops (as well as the Ruger autos). People very seriously underestimate the .22LR's leathality, accuracy, reliability and stopping power. Both pistols can put a lot of lead in the air in a very short period of time, and the ATF museum in Washington used to show how a Ruger could be situated in a briefcase and be used covertly.

People in the spook business (as well as most country bumpkins) also know that even if a .22LR doesn't put you down immediately -- and many times it does -- just being shot with one is enough to keep even the most skilled surgeon from saving your life.

As for the gun itself, the Beretta is superb. Mine had a little bit of recurring rust on one side, though the gun has barely been used. So I had it hard chromed at Majovsky's and test fired it to ensure the tolerances had not been affected (they hadn't). Now it's been cleaned and is sitting in the safe because I live in a state with few ranges or places to shoot. But if I were to go walking in the woods, it would be one of my first choices of guns I'd carry. It's astoundingly fast and ultra-reliable.

Get one.

 
Thanks! So just out of curiosity, the Israelis carried the steel-framed 70S model with the adjustable rear sight? In addition to the model 71?

Just interested in these gun's histories. I am probably going to be seeking one out in the near future. :)
 
Hey Metric this thread did cause me to check GB for model 70s and there are two listed. One with the suppressor and one with the suppresor removed and the barrel threaded. Both in the mid to upper $300 range. But I can wait. I like the Bersa I linked to just as well.

Star thats a pretty gun. I know why the OP likes them. I have always been a fan of the 22LR for SD. My uncle was a cop and he had a high respect for them. He was also a homicide dick and saw lots of people that had been shot. When I asked about 22s he said "those are bad mothers". Just a couple of issues ago the American rifleman had an article about the Colt Woodsman guns and it started off with a writer talking about the deadliness of the 22 round.

The smallest 22 I have is an Iver Johnson TP-22. Sort of a copy of the Walther TP 22. All the rest are ruger autos. But I would never feel undergunned with my Ruger standard model 4.5" barreled gun. And it points so well. I have made some amazing snap shots with that gun. Everyone should have a 22 auto of some sort.

I really want one of the new Ruger SR22s with a threaded barrel. I just might have to get a suppressor to go along with it.
 
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