Belly weapons

B

Blinddrive

Inactive
At extremely close range, how will various ammo types perform?My carry gun of choice is a NAA 22MS, which is the 1 1/8” barrel. Yes, I’m aware of its limitations, and a 357 resides at bedside. Why a mini gun? I awoke at 2:30am, and the mini was immediately clipped to the waistband of my pajamas. Its on my person until I retire. So is my phone, and a small powerful flashlight. As a former martial artist, now grown old, I was trained to always be ready for action. Bad guys don’t make appointments. The best gun is the one you are carrying. The mini gun is next to useless in combat, but is deadly up close. My question for the forum is about bullet weight. A light round is propelled by a larger powder charge. For this reason, my mini is loaded with 30 gr, as opposed to the customary 40/45 gr found in “self defense” rounds. Tests in ballistics gel show that hollow points only reliably expand out of the short barrel with lighter, faster rounds. I’m not trying to shoot through an attacker, possibly causing collateral damage. I prefer that all force be absorbed by my target. I theorize that the extra charge, most of which will ignite after the bullet has left the barrel, will provide quite a punch when the gun is used as a “ belly gun”. Opinions please. Has anyone tested this scenario in ballistics gel, firing at point blank range?
 
Last edited:
Just my humble thoughts, an airweight J frame or even the Ruger LCP 380, would be better choices. The LCP is just about as easy to carry as the NAA. If you are taking about lightweight and small.

I prefer a long barrel 9mm, for bedside use or a .45. the 357 is pretty loud.

Regarding the load, it might expand, but penetration will be lacking especially from such a short barrel
 
Expansion AND penetration is best but if you can only pick one favor expansion every time. I mean would you rather be stabbed through with a pencil or hit with a saucer if both are carrying the same energy on impact? When we start to get into the "sub" calibers (for me this includes short barrel .380s) I tend towards ammunition not designed with expansion in mind. Your not likely to get it so why risk the design compromises.
 
Gentlemen, I do appreciate the quick response. I do understand your choices in weapons. However, let me direct this thread back to the two questions I posed. At extremely close range, how will various ammo types perform? Has anyone tested this scenario in ballistics gel, firing at point blank range?
 
I will not crap on your caliber choice because even a .22lr or .25acp can and has saved the day. I will ask you to reconsider the delivery method. when SHTF I'd rather not count on having to manipulate a tiny single action revolver with one hand each time I wanted/needed to fire a round.
 
Blinddrive said:
Gentlemen, I do appreciate the quick response. I do understand your choices in weapons. However, let me direct this thread back to the two questions I posed. At extremely close range, how will various ammo types perform? Has anyone tested this scenario in ballistics gel, firing at point blank range?
Click to expand...
youtube has a few videos of such things.
 
My understanding from when I used to frequent the NAA Forums is the only .22 Magnum ammunition that even considered expanding at NAA velocities was the Speer Gold Dot short barrel.

22 Magnum ammo designed to be fired at rifle velocities is not going to expand reliably from a mini-revolver.

Its been a few years since I have really looked into it and things may have changed.
 
It will perform like any other handgun ammunition- If you hit the central nervous system, it will incapacitate immediately.
If you hit anywhere else, no particular outcome can be expected.
 
Check out Lucky Gunner Lounge and Shooting the Bull. Both of them have tested .22 mag out of 1 7/8" barrels in gel. Unfortunately, they don't appear to have tested at extremely close range. But both found Speer Gold Dot to have adequate penetration and expansion at the distances they chose for testing.
 
I would not use the very last ght bullets, nor a hollow point bullet.
With the severe handicap of a very short for the cartridge barrel I would want all tge mass I can get. Mass is what will get you penetration, penetration is what gets you to the spine. The spi e being damaged causes an instant stop.
With that tiny gun, tiny bullet combo you are considering you are hoping for the "nobody wants to be shot by anything" fear. The "oh my god, I've been shot shock, or a very lucky hit to the CNS.
BTW, a Kel-Tec P32 with a pocket clip attached would just as easily clip to your PJs, or anything else, give you a round that has a better chance of penetrating tovitals, and make follow up shots (7 of them!) much easier, and more likely if needed.
The Mini Revolver, even in 22 Magnum is still nothing but a last ditch, get off me gun.
 
Lohman446 said:
Expansion AND penetration is best but if you can only pick one favor expansion every time. I mean would you rather be stabbed through with a pencil or hit with a saucer if both are carrying the same energy on impact? When we start to get into the "sub" calibers (for me this includes short barrel .380s) I tend towards ammunition not designed with expansion in mind. Your not likely to get it so why risk the design compromises.
Click to expand...
I don't agree. It seems that Lee Harvey Oswald's death was more due to penetration than expansion...several vital organs were hit.
"Ruby’s .38-caliber bullet entered Oswald’s lower chest just below his left nipple and lodged in a noticeable lump under the skin on the right side of his back. It pierced nearly every major organ and blood vessel in his abdominal cavity – stomach, spleen, liver, aorta, diaphragm, renal vein, a kidney, and the inferior vena cava, a major vein that carries deoxygenated blood from the lower extremities back to the heart. Oswald bled out very quickly through a dozen or more holes. Trauma surgeons poured fifteen pints of blood into him and manually squeezed his faltering heart to revive it, but it simply stopped for good at 1:07 p.m. local time."
https://narratively.com/digging-up-lee-harvey-oswald/
 
My midnight gun is a 2" .38, bedroom is a Rossi, living room is a S&W 642. I prefer the double action to the little single action plus the .38 will do more damage.
 
Lohmann446, thanks for the tip on Speer ammo. I’ve not had the time to delve deeply into performance of this round versus competitors rounds, but at least it was designed with short barreled self defense guns in mind. Much ammo in this caliber is made for rifles, and little research has been made on its use for concealed carry, especially with tiny barrels. A note is in order for those who have not fired such a weapon. Since so much expansion takes place outside of the weapon (hence my original inquiry), it’s quite loud! Don’t assume that this caliber needs minimal ear protection. And of course, being a revolver, one should wear eye protection as well to protect the gunner from debris emitted between the cylinder and the barrel. Since several respondents have questioned my choice of CCW’s, I want to once again note that my weapon of choice is not the debate here, but rather I wish for help in determining the best ammo for the job in the gun in the gun I have chosen as my EDC. Plz, keep in mind that I own several firearms that are similar to those that have been recommended in this thread, but I’m of a different mindset than most firearms enthusiasts, being a former athlete who thought he was bullet proof because of hands-on training and experience. I no longer am totally confident in bare hands encounters, and the mini gun provides the round-the-clock edge that makes up for what I have lost due to aging. I’m simply not going to carry my 9mm or other bulky, heavy tools at all times. And, yes, the .357 will reside at bedside, no matter that it’s loud. I may still be able to disarm a bad guy, but age brings wisdom, and I’m not going to count on that. What I hope to discover in this thread is the best ammo for the gun of my choice in close up defensive situations. Plz guys, don’t try to convince me that I am carrying the wrong gun, but
instead help me to find the best ammo.
 
Blinddrive, if I was going to use your set up I would shoot a 40gr. lead round. It will penetrate better. Something like a CCI Standard. But I would rethink the set up. My nightstand gun is a 45 acp with 185gr +p hollow points. At extremely close range 10 rounds of that will give somebody a bellyache.
 
A Keltec P32 weighs about the same as your mini revolver.
It's double action, shoots .32 acp, it's inexpensive, it holds 8 rounds, and you can get a belt clip from the factory.
It's also extremely thin.
 
I awoke at 2:30am, and the mini was immediately clipped to the waistband of my pajamas. Its on my person until I retire...

But you only have 4 rounds of .22 rimfire (surely you are down on an empty cyl). I agree with Bill - there is scarcely 1 oz difference for the much, much more effective P-32 or the 3AT. The Kel-Tec is flatter; twice the ammo; much more potent; and is safely carried ready to rock. In respect to the .380, Buff Bore HC in the 3AT is more potent than any standard .38 spcl. Ditch the NAA.
 
A Keltec P32 weighs about the same as your mini revolver.
It's double action, shoots .32 acp, it's inexpensive, it holds 8 rounds, and you can get a belt clip from the factory.
It's also extremely thin.
Click to expand...
But reason doesn't seem to be the desired reaction to this thread.:eek:
 
One of the gun rags ran an article about small calibre pistols, years ago. It was suggested that a wee .25 ACP using Silvertips(a semi-jacketed bullet with an Al cap) placed under a chin would be very effective. Mind you, a .25 ACP FMJ will go through a 2 x 4 at 100 yards. The issue is hitting said 2 x 4.
Expansion really isn't an issue. You poke a hole in a criminal's personal ecosystem will make him lose interest. Mind you, if you lock the doors at night and not open 'em, you won't need to worry about what wee firearm works.
 
T. O'Heir said:
One of the gun rags ran an article about small calibre pistols, years ago. It was suggested that a wee .25 ACP using Silvertips(a semi-jacketed bullet with an Al cap) placed under a chin would be very effective. Mind you, a .25 ACP FMJ will go through a 2 x 4 at 100 yards. The issue is hitting said 2 x 4.
Expansion really isn't an issue. You poke a hole in a criminal's personal ecosystem will make him lose interest. Mind you, if you lock the doors at night and not open 'em, you won't need to worry about what wee firearm works.
Click to expand...
sounds like a romance novel, as there is no such thing as .25acp Silvertips. but yeah, I can see any round placed under the chin would be effective.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top