Being a Christian and Carrying a gun

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Jamie Young

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Does anyone else out there ever feel like a hypocrite? I personally carry only when I'm hiking or up in the mountains. I personally prefer not to carry If I don't think I'm going into a hot spot. For some reason the words "If you live by the sword You die by the sword" ring in my head. I heard something a few years ago about an Archbishop in the Catholic Church forbidding priests in I think New York or LA from carrying concealed handguns because it was against christian teachings. I know that the Apostles all carried Swords. (Anyone that doesn't believe me think about Which Apostle "Peter" drew his sword and cut off the ear of one of the Roman Soldiers)
 
Hopefully the mugger, rapist etc who uses any deadly weapon as a tool of his/her trade will die "by the sword". Thus fullfilling the biblical statement. Old and new testiments advocate defending one's self against aggressors. Tho sword of old was the state of the art weapon, as is the gun now.

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Sam I am, grn egs n packin

Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
 
Being a gun tote'n Christian myself, I have found no incongruities between the two.

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John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
www.cphv.com
 
I don't believe that because I carry a gun (whenever I legally can), that I therefore live by the sword.
I regard myself as the shepherd of my little flock, my family. I have a responsibility to provide for their needs, to guide them onto the right path in life and, if necessary, to protect them.
Just as lions and wolves threatened the flocks of biblical heroes like David, predators, human or otherwise, threaten us today.
I do not seek them out or hunt them down like some comic book avenger, but if they cross my path and menace me or mine, I will dispatch them towards their just reward without any hesitation.
I will regret that I was forced to kill. I may even utter a small prayer over their lost soul, but when someone chooses to follow evil and do evil, they have taken the responsibility for their fate.
The consequences of their decision is their damnation, not mine.
 
I to feel uneasy. I know how I feel but I can't imaging not being able to defend myself or my family. It doesn't seem right just to turn the other cheek. What is the real teaching? Any biblical scholars out there to comment?

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The road to tyranny, we must never forget, begins with the destruction of the truth.
William J. Clinton, President
At the University of Connecticut, Oct 15 1995
 
Tommy Gun, I think turning the other cheek has to do with an insult, not an attack on your life. I wish more Christians would carry. I think it would help make our country a safer place. I carry sometimes for this reason, not just to protect myself. The more responsible citizens that carry, the more dangerous it is for criminals. Unfortunately, some people think guns are the problem In that case, get rid of all of them, starting with the guns our leaders' bodyguards carry.
SodaPop, I looked up the verse you refered to, Matthew 26:52. It says, (not live) "take the sword shall perish with the sword." Peter was trying to protect Jesus from being taken. I'm not sure how this would apply to us in the self defense issue. Jesus' death was a once in an eternity situation.

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"Unless the Lord builds the house, they labour in vain that build it:
except the Lord guards the city, the watchman stays awake in vain." (Psalm 127:1)


"Freedom is given to the human conditionally, in the assumption of his constant religious responsibility."
(Alexander Solzhenitzyn)

[This message has been edited by Keiller TN (edited August 12, 2000).]
 
SodaPop,

The issue for Priests carrying weapons versus other members of the Church, for Catholics, are completely different things. Historically, most Priests were forbidden to fight. If they fought in an army they would be excommunicated. Also it used to be that a Catholic could be excommunicated for striking a Priest.

However there is no direct Catholic teaching against self-defense. In fact a Catholic can be said to sin if he allows himself to be killed in a situation where it can be prevented, or if he is in a state of mortal sin, or if he is responsible for others or his elimination might be harmful to the community. There are writings on this and a long history of debate and teaching on these topics. Being a martyr for your faith in God is a completely different thing than failing to protect yourself from someone who just wants to rob or kill you.

In short, there is no reason Catholics would feel guilty about carrying weapons. I personally know many who do. I think you are being overscrupulous. But it is your personal choice, I'd just advise that you think and look into it more.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Valdez:
SodaPop,

The issue for Priests carrying weapons versus other members of the Church, for Catholics, are completely different things. Historically, most Priests were forbidden to fight. If they fought in an army they would be excommunicated. Also it used to be that a Catholic could be excommunicated for striking a Priest.

However there is no direct Catholic teaching against self-defense. In fact a Catholic can be said to sin if he allows himself to be killed in a situation where it can be prevented, or if he is in a state of mortal sin, or if he is responsible for others or his elimination might be harmful to the community. There are writings on this and a long history of debate and teaching on these topics. Being a martyr for your faith in God is a completely different thing than failing to protect yourself from someone who just wants to rob or kill you.

In short, there is no reason Catholics would feel guilty about carrying weapons. I personally know many who do. I think you are being overscrupulous. But it is your personal choice, I'd just advise that you think and look into it more.
[/quote]

Good Point Valdez
 
Gentlemen,

As a Christian myself I have no problem carrying my Glock. It is one thing to live by the sword but another to allow yourself to die from by sword.
Jesus told Peter to put his sword away, not get rid of it. The reason he told him this was because he was trying to prevent something that was ment to happen and fulfilled scripture.

All throughout the Bible there are examples of Godly men defending their people, families, and homes. The teaching on turning the other cheek is refering to seeking revenge against someone. Defending a life is not revenge. Tracking the person down for a week and plotting his death is revenge.
As Christians we are charged to care, provide for, and protect our families and fellow man.
Let's look at the good samaritan.
He came upon the beaten and robbed man after the crime happened. He did everything he could for that man and got placed in the Bible as an example to all on how to treat your neighbor.
Now let's ponder on what would have happened if he came by a little sooner and caught the robbers in the act. Should we believe the samaritan would have run away like the others that came upon the beaten man, or would he have faught them to save the man.

God doesn't have double standards. If it was good for the samaritan to help him afterwards it would be good for the samaritan to help him during the robbery as well.
Back then they had swords and spears.
Today we have guns and knives.

The only thing that has changed is the tool. God's view point is the same.

I hope none of you think I am preaching because that wasn't my intention. I don't clame to know God's viewpoint outside of what his teachings in the Bible show us. I just wanted to share some things I had learned along the away.

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"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16
NRA lifer
GOA
GSSF
KABA
 
I have no idea if I can be called a Christian. I believe in God, who presents itself through my life and speaks by way of the impressions of the world around me. I have always felt there was a God, even since I was very small, but I don't know about the rest of it. I just follow my intuition and I think I do ok. My deepest feelings tell me that defending the idea of liberty is a good ethic, and that being fair and consistant with that ethic is of utmost importance.

I don't even like hurting insects when other options are available, but when it comes down to it, if humans become a threat to my society, or myself, I will be trained enough and conditioned enough to kill. I don't look forward to it, but when the time comes and I have decided that a person has become a severe threat to liberty or safety, and I know that the average person around me would agree with my actions, I'll take the shot and though I'd probably feel bad about it, I don't think it would be so traumatic to me that I'd not do it again. I would not regret the action, though I might come to regret that it had to be that way. It is not a bad idea to gauge your actions to some degree by "do nothing that you will regret". I think also, that as long as you keep in mind that no action can be undone, just reacted to, then it also makes the decision to carry a weapon more clear. Personally if people don't want to carry, that's fine, but I am ready, and I feel it is my responsibility to continue to be. I have protected myself with a firearm and my friends who were with me were very glad that I had it, and have since become quite solid gun enthusiasts.
There may be not atheists in foxholes, but there are no pacifists either, at least not for very long ;)

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
Let's see, the Apostles drank wine, gambled, carried weapons, disobeyed the authorities of the church, and questioned their elders.

So, therefore all of those above things are bad for Christians to do? Hmmmm?

Also note that in at least one of the Gospels, Luke I think, Jesus tells all of his followers to go get a sword, and if you don't have one, sell your cloak and buy one.
 
"He that has not a sword, let him sell his cloak and get one." That is Jesus speaking.
Luke 22:36.

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Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club
68-70
 
Me Christian too. Me carry gun. Me love family. NO CONTRADICTION.


Leedesert,

I'm gonna use that application in Sunday School tomorrow. I teach the Senior High in our congregation. GREAT POINT!
 
It's Luke 22:36; "And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one".
Oops, already said that! Sorry!

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Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club
68-70

[This message has been edited by TexasVet (edited August 13, 2000).]
 
"When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace."
-- Jesus Christ (Luke 11:21.6)

"Moreover, "legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another's life, the common good of the family or of the State." Unfortunately it happens that the need to render the aggressor incapable of causing harm sometimes involves taking his life. In this case, the fatal outcome is attributable to the aggressor whose action brought it
about, even though he may not be morally responsible because of a lack of the use of reason."
-- Pope John Paul II

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"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American." Tench Coxe 2/20/1788
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RickD:
"When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace."
-- Jesus Christ (Luke 11:21.6)

"Moreover, "legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another's life, the common good of the family or of the State." Unfortunately it happens that the need to render the aggressor incapable of causing harm sometimes involves taking his life. In this case, the fatal outcome is attributable to the aggressor whose action brought it
about, even though he may not be morally responsible because of a lack of the use of reason."
-- Pope John Paul II

[/quote]

RickD
What is that from the John Paul II thing?
 
According to the "Official Catechism of the Catholic Church", Part 3, Section II, Chapter 2, Article V, Paragraphs 2264-2265 ... "Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one's own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow, since one is bound to take more care of one's own life than of another's. Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another's life, the common good of the family or of the community."

I read this to mean that I have a right and a duty to defend myself and my family from unprovoked violence and since the courts have ruled that the police are not obligated to even respond to our calls for help, even in life threatening situations (see Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 [D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981]), I feel that a firearm will provide me with the protection that I may need.

FUD
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Share what you know & learn what you don't
 
The old "law of Moses" the pre-Christian Jews followed was a complete blueprint for running a government on earth, under God's principles. While it was over-ridden by Christian principles later, it's a pretty good "guide to God's general views".

(That view of the Old Testament is nearly universal among all Christian churches.)

The Law of Moses contained a welfare code, health and safety law including the need for quarantine under some circumstances, a criminal justice system, tax codes, even a very good set of animal welfare rules. And lots more.

Guess what was missing?

Gun control, or anything remotely like it.
They had knives, swords, archery, heavy slingshots capable of firing 1lb or more projectiles, spears, lots more. There were NO rules on who could carry them, weapons restrictions zones, age limits, limits on alien residents owning or carrying hardware, etc. Not one WORD on the subject.

There's lots of nasty stories and moral guides about *misuse* of weapons, but there's almost as many examples of people killing (when necessary) with God's full support. Including at least two assassinations, one with a custom dagger in a crossdraw southpaw sheath. See also: http://home.earthlink.net/~jkmtsm/eglon.html

James Mattis has written more on the subject, from an old testament/Talmudic point of view. He's Jewish, but distinctly unimpressed with Lieberman :). See also: http://home.earthlink.net/~jkmtsm/history.html

When Jesus was being placed under arrest, one of his people got over-eager and lopped the ear off a Roman soldier. While fixing the guy's ear, he made it clear that violence wasn't the answer in this situation...but he had no negative comments for his disciple's sword *carry*, matching the Old Testament principles.

My personal defensive weapons saved a stranger's life once - I was placed in the situation of the theoretical good Samaritan above, who shows up while the attack was going on. I made a tactical mistake (didn't watch their hands carefully enough) but by taking them by surprise, they were off-balance enough not to use their weapons (hammers) while I was in range. I don't regret my overall actions and had I not intervened, I'd have a hard time facing myself in the mirror to this day.

The main thing I'd warn any Christian self defense proponent about is "bezerker rage" mental states, driven by rage or hate. That's not only unhealthy, it's a good way to get killed in a gunfight, and it risks innocent bystanders. A state where you go "emotionally flat" and "high speed tactical" is better, where you're still in control of your own head. This state can be driven by care for your fellow man, or even love...over 3,000 years ago, the Greek Hoplites trained to fight with teamwork and "cover your neighbor" tactics, and specifically didn't like people who entered "rage states" on the battlefield. Their view was "the opposite of fear is love" - by emphasising teamwork, they were trying to field armies with people who cared about each other and would repeatedly save each other's butts, and in many cases hold off from panicked retreat so as to prevent loss of life on their side.

In other words, I feel that weapons carry without rage or hate, with a goal towards preserving innocent life, is completely within Christian principles.

Jim
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SodaPop:
Does anyone else out there ever feel like a hypocrite? I personally carry only when I'm hiking or up in the mountains. I personally prefer not to carry If I don't think I'm going into a hot spot. For some reason the words "If you live by the sword You die by the sword" ring in my head. I heard something a few years ago about an Archbishop in the Catholic Church forbidding priests in I think New York or LA from carrying concealed handguns because it was against christian teachings. I know that the Apostles all carried Swords. (Anyone that doesn't believe me think about Which Apostle "Peter" drew his sword and cut off the ear of one of the Roman Soldiers)[/quote]

In the Bible, having, carrying "weapons" is actively encouraged! That is all I will say.

Not sure on where supporting passages are, but they are there!


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Dead [Black Ops]
 
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