Been burned on buying a firearm online?

R

RamItOne

New member
First off, Mods feel free to move this to wherever it belongs (just not the trash can lol)

A recent post was made (in the semi auto forum) about a firearm being for sale in Texas and a small discussion came up on it's validity. Which made me wonder if anyone has any horror stories or tips on purchasing from an online source. I'm primarily speaking of buying from a private party posting on a site like gun broker or even a weapons related forum.

I can see finding a rare gun or a gun that just isn't produced anymore so you can't find it new at a gun store. However I don't see the benefits in trying to save a few bucks, paying the ffl and then waiting for the mail VS supporting your local economy.

Thanks
 
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First off, Mods feel free to move this to wherever it belongs (just not the trash can lol)

A recent post was made (in the semi auto forum) about a firearm being for sale in Texas and a small discussion came up on it's validity. Which made me wonder if anyone has any horror stories or tips on purchasing from an online source. I'm primarily speaking of buying from a private party posting on a site like gun broker or even a weapons related forum.

I can see finding a rare gun or a gun that just isn't produced anymore so you can't find it new at a gun store. However I don't see the benefits in trying to save a few bucks, paying the ffl and then waiting for the mail VS supporting you'd local economy.
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The #1 thing you need in order to purchase guns from someone out of state is a good transfer dealer. There are lots of good FFLs who understand that transfer business is a good way to increase their customer base and price this service between $10 and $25 which IMHO is reasonable depending on your local market. Anything more than $25 they are too high. I buy all sorts of accessories from my local. Not too many guns but honestly he has better margin on the ammo and accessories than he does on guns. Smart FFLs understand that having a customer buy something out of state and transfer it through you is still supporting the local dealer. Most of the time by purchasing from out of state you also avoid sales tax which in my state is 6%.

Buying guns online from out of state dealers or online retailers like Wild West Guns, Top Gun Supply, Buds & Dan's ammo etc..... is a way to save a ton of money. They offer better pricing & often better selection than any local dealer I have ever enountered on most guns. That does not mean you will not find a deal here and there in a local shop but I would say I save between 20% to 35% by using people like this. These deals are as safe as buying from your local guy. You can still examine the gun before transfering it and there is really no risk. If something does not check out then you simply do not transfer the gun and ship it back to the dealer.

When you are buying from an individual 99% of the time I use a USPS MO. If the person defrauds you they have committed mail fraud on top of the crime of not delivering the goods they promised. If the person can take a credit card that is great too but be weary of paypal because they have a no firearms policy and if it goes bad they will not help you recover your funds.

Being smart avoids a lot of hassles. You look for long standing members. Guys who have sold things in the past. People who are active on the forum and know their stuff. These make some deals a safe bet but there are no guarantees. I have been burned on a custom 1911 that had hammer follow and the guy would not stand behind the gun yet he had a good rep and had sold quite a few high $$$ guns with no issues in the past.

I always try to get a home phone #. I try to get a home address and I try to verify the email address I am given. There are tons of ways to do this. If they intend to ship via and FFL I contact the FFL and inquire if they know the customer. A lot of the time they do and can vouch for the guy.

These are pretty simple steps and if you like to buy used guns it really ends up saving you a ton of cash if you are willing to do a little leg work. Thinks like a $1300 LNIB Les Baer TRS, BHP Practical LNIB for $550, Sig P228 for $450the list goes on and on.......

Of the 50+ forum type transactions I have completed as a seller or a buyer over the last 7 years or so I have had exactly 2 go bad. One was the 1911 which I mentioned and the other was a set of grips which a buyer was not happy with and I offered a full refund on. That does not mean I will not get burned tomorrow but I find a lot of value in these types of transactions. Think of it as the modern version of what gun shows used to be.
 
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i used to buy local, but i just can't justify it anymore. if you are patient on gunbroker, you can usually save 30% minimum even after shipping and transfer fees.
 
No issues buying on line. Buy from someone with a reputable rating and things should go smoothly; otherwise, caveat emptor - you might get the deal or something can go awry.

Sites like GB try to keep things on the up and up, but you have no recourse against them if the seller is a fraud
 
Yes, I found a 1911 on gunbroker ...a Wilson Combat 1911 ...that was priced very attractively ( around $ 2,000 ) and it was reportedly new in box but a few yrs old - when I researched it / I was able to contact Wilson Combat directly - and they helped me determine the add was a fraud / for a gun that was never built. In fact the photo - looked like an old catalog photo the mfg had used a few yrs back ...

Had I jumped on that ...I'm sure it would have been a total loss of my money.

I attempted to contact the seller via email / no reponse ...that was my first clue something was not right.
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I will buy locally whenever I can ....or with a "brick and mortar" dealer on a site, if I can't find what I want. I'm looking for a couple of revolvers right now ...and I'm getting frustrated with the search / but I'm holding out ...
 
Never been burned but have had a gun arrive in worse shape cosmetically than advertised. Was sort of disappointed but at the price I paid it was not a real big deal.

And if you are not in a hurry the savings can be far more than a "few" bucks. Unfortunately the FFL's around here are charging $30 for transfers so I have to take that into account.

In the late 90's I had an FFL that would do it for free! It was a sad day when he retired and closed up shop. :(



I learned the lesson of sending something without delivery confirmation and paid a big price for that and won't ever do it again.
 
I would have to say that first of all - I didn't really buy online, not in the sense that you buy stuff from Amazon online.

I had a great experience with goingquiet.com buying a Glock, but the online part of it was mainly just the communicating.

Since this guy had a very good reputation on Glocktalk forums I sent payment via USPS instead of putting it on my credit card. Most dealers - even local will take the fee that credit cards charge them and charge it straight back to you. Thus you sometimes see a price and it says "Cash Price".

But if you search Glocktalk.com you'll turn up some examples of people who were ripped off. I'm sure you can turn it up on other forums as well.

Also I just wanted to pass this on:

Some people think that paying via US Postal Money order gives them some extra margin of safety or something, and it really doesn't. Most theives don't process credit payments but people have been ripped off paying via credit card, check, US Postal Money Order, cashiers checks - everything.

If you think paying by U.S. Postal Money Order means the Postal Inspector is going to march over to the guy's house and get your money back for you - you're wrong.
 
If you think paying by U.S. Postal Money Order means the Postal Inspector is going to march over to the guy's house and get your money back for you - you're wrong.
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This is very true but it adds to the serverity of the charges you can bring to bear and it also give you more documentation reguarding the fraud. The best bet is always a credit card charged directly, not a 3rd party payer like paypal, if anything goes wrong you can disspute the charge and get your $$$ back.
 
I buy almost everything online if I can wait a week to have it. No brick and mortar store can compete with online prices, because they have way more overhead. Guns are no different.

HOWEVER, the bit about supporting your local economy is important. Guns are unique (in my area at least), in that the minority of people buy and use them. So my thinking is that if we don't support the local stores, they won't be around any more. We used to have one here that had a range attached and it was the only place within hundreds of miles where you could fire a gun before buying it. Now its gone, and that's a constant reminder to me.

I recently bought my first gun from a LGS. I paid $100 more than Buds. I even paid more than other LGS in the area, but not by nearly as much. I did it because its the biggest store here with the best selection (other than chains like Gander Mountain, never shop there), and I wanted to support them. I will probably buy future guns from Buds and have them transferred. I also try to spread out my business among the local stores here because I want them all to stay in business.

As for horror stories, I tried to buy a Savage MkII BTVS from Buds, but after three weeks it hadn't shipped yet, so I had them cancel the order. They handled it well, explained that they were overwhelmed with orders and were building new facilities to handle it. It was only a negative experience because I ended up having to buy a rifle I didn't like as much for close to the same amount at retail.
 
I've probably bought 6 or 8 items from Gunbroker in the couple 3-4 years I've been on there. Only one was a firearm, and one was close. All the other deals were small bits... grips, mags, etc. The "close" was a T/C Contender barrel, so not a firearm per se, but still over a hundred bucks. It came from a simple Gunbroker user, not a store, dealer or "business" of any sort, so there was some risk, but there was no problem whatsoever and I got what I believed was a decent deal.

The firearm was back in February and I went the route of GB because my local FFL couldn't get one. Davidson's showed the ability to get one (I think?) but I found a seller on Gunbroker that seemed quite established and I went through him. The transaction was as seamless as you could ask and the pistol has been all that I had hoped it would be and I couldn't be happier.

I've been on Ebay since like '96 or '97. WAY back when, I even bought gun-related items. Much, much more of my activity over the years has been sports memorabilia type items. Suffice to say, I've done a lot of transactions through Ebay and through discussion forums... and I mean several hundred purchases, sales and trades. Most of these have nothing to do with firearms, but the total is somewhere just shy or around a thousand. My sum total of things going completely wrong where one party of the other feels flat-out bent over was one. One!

I've had sports cards sent through a postal eating machine and arrived to my place in a plastic bag of confetti. Checks, too. I've had someone purchase something from me -- not like it, and return it with no feelings hurt. I had one guy write me a negative feedback and said that I never paid -- but I had the canceled check AND he sent me the item! :p

These days, I only go to Ebay for very specific items where it's the best place to find them. If I make more than 2 or 3 bids in a calendar year, it's an odd year. I do my share of buying and selling through my local gun forum... small items are mailed, gun items are FTF transactions. So far, everything has gone outrageously well and my biggest transaction was very nearly $2,000.

I guess it's something you get a feel for... and you certainly take a major leap of faith. But for the most part, I've found that you end up dealing with like-minded people who pretty much want exactly the same thing in a transaction.

Plus... I'm one of those kooks that pretty much believes that the average person is a good, honest person who does the right things even when nobody is looking. That seems to have served me well.

Perhaps I'm due for a good screwjob! :eek::mad:;)
 
I would like to support my LGS. But in the case of my Glock 17L they were charging $699.00, plus tax ($48.93), plus $5.00 IL processing fee...

That's $752.93 versus $621.49 total I paid ordering it from goingquiet.com in Florida

I can't drop a 130+ dollars into their till in the name of supporting them.
 
Count, yup there's an LGS here that I just don't understand how they stay in business, I remember growing up and going there to look at the guns when I was a little kid. The owners got divorced and she got the shop, (insert stereotypical joke here) , since the split I've had nothing but bad experiences there and the pricing and selection is as if we are at an Alaskan outpost.
 
RamItOne
Been burned on buying a firearm online?
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I've purchased quite a few items online and the only times I got burned was with sellers who were NOT merchants - aka Joe Blow individual collector. Both times, the gun in question was described as "excellent". The pictures were not super duper clear and were taken at arm's length.

In one case, the revolver's frame turned out to be slightly bent due to being dropped on its top-strap. In another case, the rifle's bluing was garbage and the tubular mag could barely come out of the tube because of a dimple in the tube. Thankfully neither guns were expensive.

My lesson learned is NEVER to buy from individuals online and always ask lots of questions no matter how simple. Many individuals will overrate their personal items, not because they are lairs, but because they simply overvalue their personal stuff. In the case with the top-strap, the guy had it shown in the pic, but I didn't look close enough - my bad. The gun shot fine, btw.
 
I've not found Gunbroker to be much cheaper than Bud's in my limited amount of time on both. The exception being things that Bud's doesn't have of course, but I think even if there is a small price difference, why take the risk on Gunbroker?

Similar to Amazon vs. eBay. Like that other poster I've been using eBay since the 90s but rarely use it anymore, Amazon is so much easier and has competitive prices without the risk or drama.
 
I've not found Gunbroker to be much cheaper than Bud's in my limited amount of time on both. The exception being things that Bud's doesn't have of course, but I think even if there is a small price difference, why take the risk on Gunbroker?

Similar to Amazon vs. eBay. Like that other poster I've been using eBay since the 90s but rarely use it anymore, Amazon is so much easier and has competitive prices without the risk or drama.
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Gunbroker makes sense for items which are no longer being produced. Bud does not have a BHP Practical for me to buy but I can find one on GB. I agree when you are looking at 2 different items which are new buying from buds vs an individual on GB Buds might make more sense but for me this is rarely the case.

Its funny that you bring up Amazon because more and more they have become a distribution point/point of sale site for other companies. If you look closely more and more stuff being sold on Amazon is not be sold by Amazon.
 
I have to agree with what you've said on Gunbroker on new gun prices. The one I bought was an EAA Witness Elite Match and I got it for $519 plus $20 to ship, brand new in the box, never been touched.

The seller lists one in each chambering and re-runs the auction until it sells. My FFL couldn't get one from any of his sources and I couldn't find a better price anywhere. MSRP was $667 when I got mine.

The pistol -- 2,149 shots since February through it and I can't find a single serious complaint. It's a helluva pistol and if follows the same path, it will go down as one of my most brilliant new gun purchases.
 
Bought new pistol online and had a good transaction, even though it was from what seems to be a new player in the online gun market. Bought a used pistol from my LGS also had a good transaction. I like to support my local people, but that usually comes in the form of ammo and accessories, as others have said the savings online even including shipping and transfer are too hard to pass up, on the higher dollar purchases. Especially when you lived in a county with 9.25% sales tax :eek:
 
I've bought from GunBroker, GunsAmerica, CDNN, and other retail shops. I had one bad experience, and it wasn't horrible, just not what was promised. These retailers rely upon ratings. Look at the ratings before you buy. This will help you decide, if the seller is straight forward or not.

If you are dealing with a private indiviual, do so on one of the gun forums. Notice the post count. If he has stiffed anyone, you'll be able to find out quickly. Most memebers of forums don't want their name smeared, so they generally show pictures of any and all defects/scratches/etc.

I have bought a lot of firearms via the web. A week ago, I took possession of a Scar 16s, a month before that another HK45. I also buy locally, but the price difference can be tremendous.

I have a local FFL, who charges me $20 for each gun, not bad.
 
I'm so old I actually bought a GUN through ebay. A universal carbine, from a private seller, no problems.

All told, I bought 5 guns, private sellers and gun shops. No issues. Sometimes the gunshop doing the FFL had a bad attitued about it, but he got paid $25 to open a box, make a phone call, and write my name in a book. Not a bad deal. Maybe he felt like I was cheating.

The prices here in FLorida are pretty good. I only use FFLs for the stuff I just can't find or order.
 
Earlier this year, I bought a Wilson Combat pistol on Auction Arms.

The seller was also in Texas but too far to arrange a face-to-face.

He sent me a copy of his TXDL and I sent two US Postal Money Orders to that address as payment... via US Mail with delivery confirmation.

I got an email the day they were delivered saying the gun would ship in two days... after that nothing.

Could not get the seller on the phone either, so I went on-line, contacted the city Police Department Investigation division via e-mail and the very nice Lt. started working the case the same week.

First the seller claimed he never got the money and blamed a local gun store who he said had scanned his DL for a purchase.

Next someone in North Carolina contacted the same PD with a similar complaint. After 30 days I filed for copies of the Money Orders with USPS which showed the endorsement signature matching the DL signature.

I send those to the investigator and suddenly the seller is willing to make restitution, which he did. Along the way it turns out the seller is a reserve officer in a neighboring county Sheriff's Dept. It takes all kinds.

Since then, I've bought three other pistols on line with no issues.
 
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