Jeff Thomas
New member
Per Spartacus: 'I believe that the no knock policy is bad policy. That the disadvantages outweigh the advantages except in a hostage scenario and even then I think that major safeguards are needed.'
And Rich pointed out the extension of no knocks way beyond situations requiring immediate intervention to save life or stop violent felons.
I can't support or agree with no knocks, and I don't think that should offend our LEO friends. Put yourselves in our positions, as civilians. I'll state the emotion - you guys can scare the hell out of us. We think you're good guys generally, but we keep hearing about too many mistakes for lousy reasons.
If police officers break into my home during dinner or the middle of the night, how quickly do you think I can realize what is actually happening? I'm an amateur, guys. Since they will likely enter in plain clothes or black uniforms, my first glance is not going to tell me these are the police officers I normally see in my daily life. Instinctually I will act to protect my wife and children. If the entry 'team' is screaming 'police' as they come up the stairs, I have to make a split second decision. I have read and heard of a number of cases where BG's have evidently used that MO. And, much of your equipment can apparently be purchased over the internet and through uniform shops. Not your 'official' uniforms, but your 'ninja' gear.
So, if a SWAT team truly enters my house, I actually hope they get to me very quickly, before I can possibly react. Otherwise, you'll probably kill me 'by mistake', and guys ... I really don't see the point. Hell, you may kill my boy as he tries to help me. And then my wife will hear you've got the wrong house in our case as well?
Why don't we let our LEO's get back to focusing on stopping violence, theft, etc.? Just seems like more 'drug war' nonsense to me. Nonsense that is getting innocent people killed, and damaging relations between innocent, law-abiding civilians and otherwise brave, dedicated LEO's.
[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited September 02, 1999).]
And Rich pointed out the extension of no knocks way beyond situations requiring immediate intervention to save life or stop violent felons.
I can't support or agree with no knocks, and I don't think that should offend our LEO friends. Put yourselves in our positions, as civilians. I'll state the emotion - you guys can scare the hell out of us. We think you're good guys generally, but we keep hearing about too many mistakes for lousy reasons.
If police officers break into my home during dinner or the middle of the night, how quickly do you think I can realize what is actually happening? I'm an amateur, guys. Since they will likely enter in plain clothes or black uniforms, my first glance is not going to tell me these are the police officers I normally see in my daily life. Instinctually I will act to protect my wife and children. If the entry 'team' is screaming 'police' as they come up the stairs, I have to make a split second decision. I have read and heard of a number of cases where BG's have evidently used that MO. And, much of your equipment can apparently be purchased over the internet and through uniform shops. Not your 'official' uniforms, but your 'ninja' gear.
So, if a SWAT team truly enters my house, I actually hope they get to me very quickly, before I can possibly react. Otherwise, you'll probably kill me 'by mistake', and guys ... I really don't see the point. Hell, you may kill my boy as he tries to help me. And then my wife will hear you've got the wrong house in our case as well?
Why don't we let our LEO's get back to focusing on stopping violence, theft, etc.? Just seems like more 'drug war' nonsense to me. Nonsense that is getting innocent people killed, and damaging relations between innocent, law-abiding civilians and otherwise brave, dedicated LEO's.
[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited September 02, 1999).]