Beating the SWAT team, Your suggestions, Part 2

Per Spartacus: 'I believe that the no knock policy is bad policy. That the disadvantages outweigh the advantages except in a hostage scenario and even then I think that major safeguards are needed.'

And Rich pointed out the extension of no knocks way beyond situations requiring immediate intervention to save life or stop violent felons.

I can't support or agree with no knocks, and I don't think that should offend our LEO friends. Put yourselves in our positions, as civilians. I'll state the emotion - you guys can scare the hell out of us. We think you're good guys generally, but we keep hearing about too many mistakes for lousy reasons.

If police officers break into my home during dinner or the middle of the night, how quickly do you think I can realize what is actually happening? I'm an amateur, guys. Since they will likely enter in plain clothes or black uniforms, my first glance is not going to tell me these are the police officers I normally see in my daily life. Instinctually I will act to protect my wife and children. If the entry 'team' is screaming 'police' as they come up the stairs, I have to make a split second decision. I have read and heard of a number of cases where BG's have evidently used that MO. And, much of your equipment can apparently be purchased over the internet and through uniform shops. Not your 'official' uniforms, but your 'ninja' gear.

So, if a SWAT team truly enters my house, I actually hope they get to me very quickly, before I can possibly react. Otherwise, you'll probably kill me 'by mistake', and guys ... I really don't see the point. Hell, you may kill my boy as he tries to help me. And then my wife will hear you've got the wrong house in our case as well?

Why don't we let our LEO's get back to focusing on stopping violence, theft, etc.? Just seems like more 'drug war' nonsense to me. Nonsense that is getting innocent people killed, and damaging relations between innocent, law-abiding civilians and otherwise brave, dedicated LEO's.


[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited September 02, 1999).]
 
LadydeeJ, sorry, I just looked at your profile. You registered on July 28 and I spent most of the months of July and August in self imposed exile. Maybe the LEO's were fairly quite during August. When you have a moment, scan back over the preceding months of 99. Rob's not the only LEO with political opinions here by a long shot.
 
I have been here longer than what is seen under my profile and I've also read backwards. I've also seen threads where you have one or two cops against 40 TFL members. I found your comment of thinking there is an equal balance here, ludicrous.

I'm not advocating SWAT or No Knock procedures. Quite the contrary, I'm interested in hearing both sides of the argument.

As far as having a SWAT team invade my home, I could have an arsenal of 100 guns. Would I reach for them if I heard the words "POLICE, POLICE!!! NOBODY MOVE."

Um…no, I would not. Does that mean I agree with these tactics? No, I do not. Would I shoot a cop just because I felt that my constitutional rights were being violated? Um...no again. You believe strongly in your views, as do I. Reaching for your gun to defend yourself will only get you killed. Until these procedures are declared unconstitutional, these are the choices that are laid before us. Shoot and be shot, or cooperate peacefully. If I were to survive a raid, it would be because I chose the latter of the two options.

:) Have a nice night all.
J
 
Why are some whining about this topic? I see nothing wrong about discussing this topic or any other topic that may pose serious bodily harm to one and ones family in the future.
 
To stop the SWAT: Hide or lay down and keep your hands visible, and don't move.

You can hurt them in court worse than you can hurt them at 1 am when they break in.

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Anarchism: The radical notion that I am the sole authority when it comes to deciding what's best for me.
 
Hey guys!
I am new to this site, but say it again, "government guns need to be controlled, not yours or mine.
We are not talking here about our local police force carrying out there duties. This is about "jack bootted thugs of the BATF & FBI like at Waco. God bless the Texes Dept. of Public Saftey (i.e. Texas Rangers ) for stepping out to tell the truth!
 
"Cops are people to they make mistakes just like you and I we all pay for our mistakes one way or the other wether it be losing your job over it or getting the pants sued off of you or both we each pay the price."

Yes, Cops are human. That is exactly why they should not be doing noknock entries. The price of mistakes is too high and mistakes WILL happena nd do happen. This is not war, and casualties are not acceptable. The Police got by just fine before they were doing these noknocks and now that they have them, suddenly they "have to" do them. Find other ways to get the bad guys. Take the old methods before the "war on drugs" and refine them and advance them.
Utilizing this kind of power, mistakes are NOT torable. No amount of punishment or reimbursment can give the life back to a man who is murdered in his home. There is no "Oops, sorry", when you gun someone down in front of their family, in their bed. Cops are human, they make mistakes, and that is exactly why they should not have this power. The price is too high, it is an errosion on our rights, and the slippery slope it takes us down is the downfall of America. The very small benefits are NOT worth the price.
 
To the people who say, "Give it up, there IS no way to beat SWAT!", all I can say is, they're men, not Olypian gods! Of course they could be beat, if you knew they were going to be coming after you, and had some time to prepare, and the resources to put into the job. The real question is, "What then?" Want to spend the rest of your life on the "Most Wanted" list?
 
Has a SWAT raid ever been beat? I know groups of regular cops have been beat as per 'America's Most Wanted'. But what about SWAT? We know that the FED LE SWAT types can at least step on their d*cks (Ruby Ridge, Waco). Surely yocals do the same things.
 
Ive given alot of thought to this and this is the best I could come up with. After hardening your home(plex windows, steel door etc.), get SEVERAL vicious dogs. I dont mean trained attack dogs, but ferocious;junkyard sobs. Keep the dogs in the house. When the deal gos down, all the dogs would attack. Chances are, when the team started shooting dogs, they would surely shoot each other. This would give you alot more time to carry out your plan, whatever it is.

Just a thought.......Luke 22:36 RKBA! m16
 
Here is something from an old man. Probably not wisdom, but perspective.
There have always been abuses of police power simply because it is power.
For many years people respected the police and felt that they could trust and rely on their police because any abuse was caused by only a few.
I'm not going into conspiracy theories here but the lack of trust in our police is another sign of where we are headed.
Individuals have always done wrong and/or made mistakes.Police are no different. I'm not sure that police NEED a SWAT team, but if they do they should be HIGHLY trained because they will be exercising their powers id a "friendly" country. That simple concept seems to be beyond the grasp of a lot of people who are willing to say "Sorry 'bout that", spend more taxpayers money in reparations, and move on!
Do we really need SWAT? There are too many stories of raiding the wrong place and killing innocent people. If I did that I would be in jail.I cant help thinking that it is seen as a game, like another drill etc.

WHAT IF THE CHIEF OF POLICE WERE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR ABUSES BY MEMBERS OF HIS DEPARTMENT????

Nah,that wouldnt be fair.

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
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