Bear defence with a 9mm

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Moe

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Here is the senario. You live in an area that has some peditors. The worse you may encounter is a black bear. If you had to carry a 9mm (HP-35). What would you feed it? Remember "black bear" were talking. Im not looking for answers like "get a 44mag duh" It has to be the 9mm round. Would you be better off with FMJ or HP loads? What brand and weight. The HP-35 is reliable with all loads FMJ and HP. Have several mags and pouches. Would you carry different loads?

Thank you for your input.
Moe
 
Ditto Gary's comments.

Nearly every handgun hunter I know won't use a 9mm for anything except plinking. If you've got to carry a handgun where bears live, look for something larger.

Confidence in a 9mm in that context is probably false confidence. And beside, shooting a bear with a 9mm is likely to p*ss the bear off...
 
Right on the money about avoiding bears Chris. That and all you really have to do is outrun the other guy.

I do recall reading a book written by Idi Amin's Commanding Officer. Idi at the time was a mere sergeant and had years to go before he became a General Field Marshal, President for Life, race-car driver, exalted phoo-bah, etc. He reports one of the troopers killing a rhino by emptying the magazine of a 9mm Sten gun into it. I'm don't recall the author's name (may have been something like Graham Greene) nor the book's title. TFLers, don't try this at home or at the zoo.

[This message has been edited by 4V50 Gary (edited March 22, 2000).]
 
Hello, Moe. Were I forced into the 9mm Browning scenario you mention, I'd load 124 gr XTPs loaded to about 1250 ft/sec. I'd hope it was a small bear. While the 9mm Browning HP is my favorite handgun, it would not be my first choice in this situation. Best.
 
Bear w/9mm, well, shot shells would be a good deturrent! as for stopping him, get something like hornady, or cor-bon or gold dot +p 147, HP's aim for the face, and practice running away while shooting. i am not a BHP fan, or really a 9mm fan, but hey, its a good bang for the buck. and after you shoot it empty and he is still comming i guess a BHP would be better to throw at him than a glock, heavier atleast.
 
Hmmmm, in a 9mm vs Blackie situation, I'd probably want a couple of mags full of some hot handloaded 147gr hard cast semi-wadcutters, or a FMJ version of the same would be even better.

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"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."Ecclesiastes 10:2
 
We do live in bear land and have gone tent camping in bear woods, and have had a black bear come into the edge of our camp.

I had a 1911 loaded with 230gr Hydro Shoks and felt way way out clawed. We were able to get the 12ga out and then I felt a tad better.

No 9mm is going to stop a bear unless you have time to bleed it out. All a 9mm will do is really really upset mama bear.

If your life is on the line you would want the fastest heaviest and blunt (flat nosed) ammo avaible.
 
If it has to be 9mm, go for the round that will penetrate the most. I'd say FMJs. Now, given that the majority of 9mm rounds will simply ricochet off a grizzly's head, against a black bear, you're still pretty much screwed. The answer, as all have said, is that shooting a bear at any distance, with a 9 is just going to piss it off. If you've GOT to use the round against bear, use it in a Marlin camp carbine.
 
"Bear Defense", what exactly are defending the bears from? Seriously if bears are that much of a concern or problem I would seriously consider buying a larger caliber weapon.
 
I have wrestled with black bears as entertainment for some radio station promotions and a few brown types. I lost everytime and I'm 6-6 and 290. I lost big time. EVERY member of the Minnesota Vikings that tried, LOST to Victor the brown bear.
In Minnesota they are pests and invade homes and businesses often.
I've shot my share years ago and all with handguns. The problem is the bears are MUSCLE and that is hard to penetrate. In the fall add the fat factor in.
I have used a .357 and .41 Magnum with good performance out to 100+ yards. Most black bears don't want trouble and will avoid you at every opportunity. They will however get ugly in the spring and summer if you get between a mother and cubs.
Last year we had an unprovoked attack on a camper by a black bear which is very odd. The sleeping camper was badly mauled. In this case he was asleep and dragged in his sleeping back a distance from the camp sight and could not have defended himself with a gun.
A 9mm would be real light but capacity MIGHT help IF you could apply the gun.
Since it is a good idea to buy more guns anyway why not get one that would work for this and other uses? A .357 would be a decent choice. Most hunters prefer the 158 grain hollowpoints. I've used 125 grain HP's without complaint.
Also don't even THINK you can outrun a bear. It won't happen. Their speed is incredible. Some estimate 25 mph or slightly more once they get rolling. Ain't no sneakers going to get you past that without having a blow out.
The only hope you might have is a bears disgust for the foul smelling substance landing on the trail that excretes from your body as you run.
 
Moe,


Carefully considered answer: my 147g FMJ-FP at +P+ velocity (assume range of 1050-1200fps) or 124gFMJ-RN+P+ at 1300+fps.

If you were to order this from me I would tell you up front the ammo DOES EXCEED SAAMI spec. No warranty.

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
This is interesting. Ignoring the usefullness of 9 mm for a moment, I'm suprised by all the recommendations for HP's. Even in a .357 or .41. Given the muscle, bone structure, distance to anything vital etc. of a bear I would have thought a solid point of some type, like those recommended by GI Loveguns, would be preferable. You'd have better penetration and thus be more likely to hit something important or break some bones. JHP's just don't seem like they would be as effective on something like a bear. Any further thoughts, explanations anyone?
 
I’ve had this discussion before. At the time I had a 9mm and went camping almost every weekend. Someone asked me if I would use a 9mm on a black bear. My reply was “ this is a 15 shot clip, if worst comes to worst that's 14 for the bear and one for me.” ;)
 
Let's assume that the original poster has asked a serious question, and deserves a serious reply. Under the circumstances he has outlined, just about all 9mm loads, SP, HP or whatever, of any weight, are inadequate to HUNT bears. But if that was all I had, and shooting was my ONLY defensive option, I would shoot fast and often at the head. Most of the bears I have seen shot, or known about the shooting of, have been at close range (bait or dog hunting here in Maine.) .357's are marginal...one bear in a dog melee took six through the body before a final one in the earhole stopped it. Still, one guide I know routinely finishes off bayed bears with a .357 Ruger, at contact range. Shooting a bear at 100 yards with a .357 isn't something I or any honest guide would countenance, however. A 9mm WILL penetrate a bear's skull. From the side, aim just below and forward of the ear. From the front, the center of the nose. A bear's brain is lower inside the skull than it looks. Yes, you can kill a bear with a 9mm...if you HAVE to. But it's by no means a sure thing, just a better thing than taking a mauling without fighting back. You should also know that black bears don't stop attacking if you lie still, as browns/grizzlies have been known to do, they will fight til put down. The poster also mentioned '...other predators'. The HP would be adequate for anything less than bruin, except perhaps a rutting moose bull or angry cow moose mother. --slabsides
 
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