Be careful out there!!! Horrible accidents happen...

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Oh, ok, I agree there, but the trailer was full of people; the family had gathered to watch a football game, and therefore odds are good that SOMEONE was gonna get hit. Too many possible outcomes to compute, but a high degree of possibility that someone was gonna get hit in some part of their body.
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You're right. That's why I say he had the responsibility to know and not fire in that direction. If he did know and just thought "Well, it's probably OK..." he should be tried for negligent homicide or 2nd degree murder or some such thing. I'm no lawyer so I don't know the names necessarily but in that case it should be whatever is one step down from intentional premeditated murder.
 
This situation is based on what a reasonable person would do. We all have our level of confidence that we have taken all precautions to insure that no one is injured by our actions and yet it happens.

The police will draw a straight line from where is was standing to the trailer and call it good. What are the chances that you could shoot a bullet into the forest and it not be deflected? Have you ever passed up a shot because you didn't think you could thread the bullet/arrow thru the openings in the branches in front of a game animal? You couldn't be sure your bullet/arrow would not be deflected and miss the animal.

I'm just saying I need more info like maybe a view of what he saw and an idea of what he knew when he made the shot. Till then I will do the prudent thing and reserve judgment.

Was this shot made out of negligence or was he just a slob hunter with no regard for anyones safety.

This is a sad incident and even if he is tried and found not guilty his life is ruined and a little girl is dead. A lose/lose situation for all involved.

No, no rush to judgement for me. Be safe.

Dallas Jack
 
Many good points made here, and much we can learn from, but I agree with Dallas Jack in that there is no way we have received enough information via this post to fully judge the individual. What if there was a ricochet, which can deflect a bullet's path by any possible degree? Very few of us can point to the place our hunting bullets come to lie.
Knowledge of the area and awareness of your situation are crucial, but do not absolutely prevent strange incidents from happening. Though I have heard no updates, a fan at a recent NASCAR race was hit by a bullet while sitting in an RV. Police were considering the possibility that the bullet was fired from up to 5 miles away by a guy target shooting with a .50 cal rifle. Many people lose their awareness of the background when looking through the limited FOV of a scope. In the last year or so in this area, a person was killed while driving their car down a highway by a deer hunter's bullet that somehow found its way out of a thick woods populated by many hunters...shooter never found, and who knows how convoluted a path that bullet followed to get where it got.
 
Well, it was an accident in as much as he never meant to hurt anyone, and in that he probably didn't even realize there was a house over there.
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How could he not realize such a thing? See the pics in the link below. I just don't buy it that he was oblivious to there being homes in the area.
http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pb...0081117&Kategori=NEWS15&Lopenr=1117011&Ref=PH

It happened around 4:00 PM and there were people coming and going from that house during the day. The would have made a good bit of noise even if he had not visually seen the actual house. Never mind the fact that there are few roads in the area and he likely drove in on the road on which the house sits. Google the address of 1338 Horseshoe Lake Road, Swan Lake, NY on Google Maps.
 
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In my opinion there is no way you can be 100% positive where your bullet will come to rest. You may be positive of your backstop but your control of that bullet ends when you fire that shot. When hunting you cannot be 100% sure of who or what may be in the bullets path.
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Anyone who uses the word "accident" in any sense of the word here is WRONG. Period.

Any hunter worth his license WILL KNOW EXACTLY WHERE HE IS GEOGRAPHICALLY AND HIS FIREARM'S MAXIMUM AREA OF POSSIBLE IMPACT. While a hunter can not predict exactly where his bullet will end up inside that area of impact...or even predict his bullet's actual path of travel, he should already have taken the time to ensure that there is no possibility of his bullet impacting people or property.

That hunter was 100% negligent and should have the book thrown at him.
 
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Double Naught Spy, Looking at a Google map I can see 2 roads (Davis and Briscoe) that he could have parked off of and never passed by the trailer. It was never stated where he parked or where his tree stand was except in general terms (off of Horseshoe Lake Rd) and that describes a large area. I am assuming his tree stand was not located by his vehicle. Just how far does the average hunter walk to get to his hunting location?

Creature
Any hunter worth his license WILL KNOW EXACTLY WHERE HE IS GEOGRAPHICALLY AND HIS FIREARM'S MAXIMUM AREA OF POSSIBLE IMPACT.
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No where in any of the articles did I see any info about what he did or did not know about the area he was hunting.

Anyone who uses the word "accident" in any sense of the word here is WRONG. Period.
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I never used the word "accident" in my post. My point is and has been there is not enough info available to judge this man and his actions. For those that have already found him Guilty, what sentence would you impose? Me, I am going to wait and let the courts sort it out when more is known about the "incident".

Surely you can tell from my post I am not defending this mans actions. Nor am I condeming him. I will just wait and see what may come of this.

Be safe.
Dallas Jack
 
Double Naught Spy, Looking at a Google map I can see 2 roads (Davis and Briscoe) that he could have parked off of and never passed by the trailer. It was never stated where he parked or where his tree stand was except in general terms (off of Horseshoe Lake Rd) and that describes a large area. I am assuming his tree stand was not located by his vehicle. Just how far does the average hunter walk to get to his hunting location?
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No, we don't know where he parked, but like I said, there aren't that many roads in the area.

Plus, I never said he drove by it, only that it was likely he did. Still, I would contend that being within 400 feet of a house occupied by several folks including guests, then he likely would have heard noises from that area and known people lived there even if he didn't see them.

If you do look at the pics, you can see that a LOT of that 400 feet isn't heavy forest, but open or mostly open terrain. The trees are not foliated.
 
From the tone of some posters, I'd say that we could save a lot of time and money by just stringing the guy up and be done with it.:rolleyes: None of us were there and none of us know enough details to make such hate filled opinions on what happened here. I say that it is a terrible tragedy and I will pray for the victim, her family, the hunter, and his family and let the criminal justice system play out and let God do the judging. As Jesus said: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
 
If you are suggesting some form of self-imposed censorship because people have judgmental opinions of the shooter you deem inappropriate, then you might consider censoring yourself as your words about not passing judgment are exactly what you have done already.

After rereading the thread, I see no hatred reflected, just some high spirited opinion-based debate using the information that is available.

FYI, the first stone cast was a .300 Win Mag from 400 feet.

WWJMBD?
 
Anyone who uses the word "accident" in any sense of the word here is WRONG. Period.
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Although I may agree with the sentiment that statement is a bit heavy handed. He clearly did not intend to shoot the girl, that makes it an accident. An accident brought on by negligence to be sure, but still an accident. Pulling the trigger was 100% negligence for the reasons I and others have stated. The end result was an accident.
 
peetzakilla: That is exactly what I've been saying, and I agree almost 100%.

I say almost, b/c it really certainly could have been a ricochet of a very steep angle that killed the girl.

I have personally shot a .45 handgun at an outdoor range where the bullet would hit the ground behind the targets they set out and then ricochet up and hit the back stop at about 60 feet in the air!

Who know what kind of an angle his bullet could have been deflected...maybe as much as 45 degrees or more?? He could have shot in what he "knew" to be a safe angle away from the house, yet the bullet got deflected in an angle he never imagined possible. The evidence will have to tell the story.

He IS, however, guilty of shooting less than 400 feet from the house, but that's another matter.
 
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00Spy

Sorry if I got your knickers in a twist. I didn't think that I was being judgemental. I thought that it was worth pointing out the excercise in trying and convicting the hunter on the internet as being a pure waste of time. What you call "spirited debate" I call venom. A little self imposed thought process of not being so quick to judge makes sense to me, especially since you don't have access to the facts. As I have dealt with people with your position many times in the past I guess that I should have stayed out of the thread. Instead of shooting the messenger, why not take a moment and reflect of what is really going on by some in this thread. :(
 
Dallas Jack wrote:
No where in any of the articles did I see any info about what he did or did not know about the area he was hunting.
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If he didnt know anything, he SHOULD HAVE.

If he did, he is not only negligent, then he showed depraved indifference.

Either way, throw the book at him.

Scrap5000 wrote
He could have shot in what he "knew" to be a safe angle away from the house, yet the bullet got deflected in an angle he never imagined possible.
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And that is EXACTLY why he should have known exactly where he was...as well as why he should have known the maximum distance his firearm's danger zone in ANY/ EVERY DIRECTION. It doesn't matter if his bullet took a turn. He should have imagined it. He is culpable PERIOD.

Ignorance is not an excuse.
 
Creature, you wrote:
And that is EXACTLY why he should have known exactly where he was...as well as why he should have known the maximum distance his firearm's danger zone in ANY/ EVERY DIRECTION.
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Do you know the max danger zone of a 300 win magnum rifle (or any regular rifle outside of 30-30 win type power)? It's over 5 miles. There is almost no where in NYS that you can hunt where there are no houses within 5 miles of every direction.
 
Okay. If that is the case, then you shouldn't be able to shoot 300Win Mag anywhere in NY state other than a range that is fully bermed with a known backstop.

If there is even a remote possibility of hitting someone, why would want to shoot?
 
Okay. If that is the case, then you shouldn't be able to shoot 300Win Mag anywhere in NY state other than a range that is fully bermed with a known backstop.
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But wherever rifles are allowed then you are allowed to...as well as 7mm, 30-06, 45-70, etc etc.

So maybe (JUST MAYBE) he was shooting in a safe direction but it got deflected at 45 degrees and went into the trailer...probablt not, but who knows until the investigation is complete?
 
Scrap, But with the knowledge of the magic 5 mile rule... we also know that is in an artillery type shot. If you can hit a softball at 20 yards and compensate to hit it at 400 yards you know how much drop to account for. So how much muzzle rise would you need to hit that softball (I will give you a basketball for this) at 26,400 feet? It is our job to know and account for all possible scenarios. I have never had a bullet deflect at 45 degrees off a tree trunk but I plan for that before I shoot. Yes it does have some risk to shoot in the woods but I must mitigate those risks.
Brent
 
Although I may agree with the sentiment that statement is a bit heavy handed. He clearly did not intend to shoot the girl, that makes it an accident. An accident brought on by negligence to be sure, but still an accident. Pulling the trigger was 100% negligence for the reasons I and others have stated. The end result was an accident.
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You must be daft. No, it was NOT an accident!

It was pure negligence. And negligence is not an accident. It never was and it never will be.

This hunter failed to assess the potential for human injury and failed to employ all possible safety measures. He did not properly assess his location and he did not mitigate the risks.

This was NOT an accidental shooting. It was shooting that could and should have been avoided if the hunter had taken the time to fully reconnoiter the area he was hunting in before he ever pulled the trigger.
 
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But wherever rifles are allowed then you are allowed to...as well as 7mm, 30-06, 45-70, etc etc.
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Give me a break. If there is no area in NY where hunting is allowed that isnt within 5 miles of a habited area, perhaps then only shotguns should be allowed for hunting.
 
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