Be careful, or you could lose your CCW

divemedic

New member
This is a story of events that occurred to me about 4 years ago, events which resulted in my CWP being revoked. It took me six months, multiple hearings, an administrative appeal, and several thousand dollars in attorney fees to finally clear my name. I have posted this on a few other sites in the past, but it has been some time since I last mentioned it. Let this serve as a warning to others that this can happen to you. Sorry if this is a long story.

It began when my live in girlfriend announced that she wanted to see other people, and moved out. While we were living together, her car had broken down, and I had been letting her drive my second car while she was awaiting repairs. She had also been using a second cell phone on my Nextel account. (Trust me, I am not rambling- this is all important later)

When she moved out, I turned off the cell phone and I asked for my car back. She refused. I called the cops, they told me that since I had given her the keys, it was a civil matter. I didn't know where she moved to, so my car was gone. A month later, I saw the car parked at the mall, but there was a "club" on the steering wheel. I had it towed to my house.

The next day, there was a sheriff's deputy at my door with a domestic violence injunction, ordering me to appear at a hearing a week later. At the hearing, she produced a statement that I had been beating her while we were together. No proof, no witnesses, no police reports, no medical records, no marks on her, no corroborating evidence of any kind, just her say-so. It turns out that there is a "domestic violence victims advocates office" at the court house that coaches these women in what to say, and makes sure they get sympathetic judges.

While in court, she began crying, and told the judge that I had taken away her phone, and that I had taken back my car, and left her with no way to get to work. She also told the judge that she was afraid of me because I owned a lot of guns. This infuriated the judge, and he ordered me to turn my guns in to the police, revoked my CCW, and ordered me to provide her with a car and a phone.

He also said that since my 2 jobs as a paramedic could potentially bring me near her, that I was prohibited from going to work. One job was willing to work with me, the other one fired me the next day.

My attorney pointed out that we were never married, and the car was mine. The judge told him to sit down. Luckily, the attorney had prewarned me about the anti-gun attitude of the judge, and I had sold all of my guns to my brother in law two days earlier. Since this was not a final judgment, we could not appeal. The judge also said that my taking away "her" car and phone was a kind of violence, in that I was using my financial influence and the threat of firearms to control her.

For the next five months, we had numerous hearings, and I got one of my jobs back. I had to endure her showing up everywhere I went. I started making sure I had witnesses wherever I was, so that she couldn't accuse me of anything. I hung out with friends and family, so that way it wouldn't be my word against hers.

It would go like this: I would be at a sports bar owned by my partner, and she would show up, and call the police. Since I was there first, they couldn't arrest me, but they would make me leave. She would go grocery shopping at the store across the street from my house, and tell the cops I was watching her from my window, and they would come over and hassle me. She called the cops and told them her doctor's office was in my mom's neighborhood, and they would even throw me out of my mom's house, and make me leave until she was finished at the doctor.

One night, she called me and told me that the whole thing would go away if I paid her $10,000 in cash, and let her keep the car. I refused. My attorney was finally able to trip the judge on a legal technicality, and got him recused from the case. With a new judge, we got the whole thing thrown out, and I got my car back. By the time I got it, it had been damaged by some sort of tool.

Another month, and some administrative appeals later, I managed to get my CWP back. I bought the guns from my brother in law, and my life returned to normal.

All of this was done on a statement filled out by her, with no witnesses, and no proof whatsoever. I discovered that when you get in front of these judges, you are at their mercy. They can ruin your life.
 
An excellent cautionary post.

Remember folks, if you even get the slightest hint of a situation like this starting up, you MUST begin documenting everything IMMEDIATELY. Record all conversations and such. The backside you save might just be your own.
 
I'm assuming the domestic violence charge was thrown out? If it was, and for the right reasons, I would press charges against her for filing a false police report and attemted extortion/blackmail (however it may be coded in law where you live), along with sueing her in civil court for both slander and libel. Maybe it would all be a waste of time, maybe not. I'm a vengeful bastard when I feel it's warranted.
 
I would have to agree. I am not a vengeful person, but in this case, I would definately countersue for defamation of character, lost wages, damage to property, etc, both criminal and civil. Good luck to you!
 
Domestic Violence is a real problem. That though does not mean people loose their COTUS rights simply because one person says so. Our society in an urge to curb domestic violence has gone way too far in stripping the rights of accused, yet unconvicted, even uncharged, individuals. Some sort of case needs to go up the chain to establish once and for all that a person's rights cannot be stripped solely on the word of another who has an axe to bear.
 
You know ... I would love not to believe this story ... unfortunately, it totally rings of the truth.

I have read about many people in situation like this, and hav a friend who now has a felony conviction on his record for accusations made against him by an ex girl friend -- accusations that were not provable, not supportable, caused no one any physical harm in any case (she wasn't claiming an assault, just harassment and property damage), and in any case I'd bet never happened.

But now he can never own guns, he lost his clearance to work for the government ... BAD stuff!
 
This is a perfect example of why relationships are a bad idea.


ETA:

And women think they are so discriminated against when a guy can loose so much just by an accusation and with out any proof.
 
A similar situation happened to my nephew. He didn't own guns, and wasn't and still isn't an abusive type. He had a live in girl friend who'd, unknown to him, had several previous relationships that ended with her filing just the kind of police reports that DiveMedic reports in the initial post. When she began acting squirrelly with him, he ordered her to move out. She filed a false report of abuse, and the cops came and arrested my nephew on that basis alone. I don't remember the final legal charge, or if there was actually a conviction of anything, I do know the judge ordered my nephew to counseling just in case. I think it was an you go to this counseling or we'll proceed with this case sort of thing. Meanwhile, the girl faced no charges and goes on her way as if nothing happened.

It's my opinion that the warning signs of this kind of behavior or potential behavior are there all along, but we can't see it, at least not when young. I think guys develop a working nutcase detector, with regard to females, between the ages of 25 and 30, give or take.
 
Wild, it is open knowledge that just the accusation of domestic violence will odften cause a judge to revoke a CCW and order confiscation of a person's firearms. It is par for the course in NY.

Accusation, not even being charged, certainly not being convicted.

The system right now errors on the side of safety for the women in any domestic case with no regard to the rights of the accused. If my wife and I ever split I would fully expect her lawyer to simply tell her to make an accusation that she is "worried" I would commit a violent act. The authorities in this state would take everything gun I have.
 
I'm sorry to hear that.

But I didn't have to read beyond the first sentence of the story to know exactly where it was going - the trouble (as per usual) is the fairer sex. Good cautionary tale - thanks.
 
This is very close to the situation endured by a neighbor of ours. In his case, he was separated from his wife, who left to live elsewhere by herself. Neighbor was left with his kids, his car, living in his house.

Estranged wife returns months later, having lost her job and wrecked her car. Neighbor lets her return out of the goodness of his heart. He lets her sleep in an extra room and use a second car of his.

Estranged wife thinks he should take her back and when he refuses, she scratches and bruises herself, calls cops, makes false reports and has neighbor thrown out of his own house!

Neighbor runs a business out of his house. He had had a bankbag with cash from his business, she cuts bag open and takes money. His customers would send payment to his personal address -- she has mailbox key and appropriates those, too.

Judge says "T.S., you are still legally married". Well, yeah, 'cause she wouldn't sign any divorce papers put in front of her. Then she claims another case of "domestic violence" that didn't occur.

Neighbor is now close to losing his business, having lost his house and a second car, already.
 
Wild, it is open knowledge that just the accusation of domestic violence will odften cause a judge to revoke a CCW and order confiscation of a person's firearms. It is par for the course in NY.

Are ya sure that is the exact state of the law? Are ya leaving something out;)

WildresearchpleaseAlaska ™ (oh John I jest love ya)
 
I'm really sorry to hear about all of this happening to you. Makes you wonder just what our "Justice" system is thinking sometimes. Of course, I digress when I say that this all started with the NFA of '34 when "we the people" didn't want Gansters to own Machine Guns anymore, so they passed a law that was suppose to stop it. Then with the assinations during the '60 "we the people" complained again and ended up with the GCA of '68. AK's in the hand of gangbangers helped to get the AWB of '94 and Brady passed(thank God they had a Sun Set Clause in place) and since then "we the people" have felt that not only should Felons be denied their 2nd Amend. Rights but some of those that commit Misdemeanors should also loose their Rights as well. It's only a matter of time where a parking ticket will get your firearms taken away and you CCW's revoked and it's all because "we the people" didn't stand up and THINK back in '34 about where all of these Firearms Laws were taking us.
Personally, I'd rather move to a Forgine, gun friendly country before I let my Rights be taken away here. I guess what I'm saying is that if I can't be Free here then Any place would be better then here.
 
Personally, I'd rather move to a Forgine, gun friendly country before I let my Rights be taken away here. I guess what I'm saying is that if I can't be Free here then Any place would be better then here.
I hear you, but what country would that be?
 
I hear that Switzerland is nice. :rolleyes:
Really though, I'm sure there are many countries around the World that allow their Citizens the Right to own Firearms. Heck, look at all the AK's(full auto too) that Citizens of Iraq were allowed to own.
I know, there are many oppersive countries like England and Australia where gun ownership is under attack(just like it is here) but I'm sure a person can find someplace that'd be more Free then having his Rights taken away here and staying.
 
Are ya sure that is the exact state of the law? Are ya leaving something out
Yes I am and No I am not.

Just to get a permit to own a handgun in NY state the police will call your wife and ask her without you present if she wants you to have it. They can and have asked coworkers and neighbors. If anyone calls with any complaint about you the first thing they do is take your weapons. You can then appeal their decision, to them...

You: "Officer, I do not like the decision the officer from the Pistol Permit Dept made and here is why...."

Them: "Tough, decision stands. Transfer your weapons at $5 each to another permit holder, give them to a FFL for sale, or give them to us."

The officers investigating both my father 30 years ago and I more recently both asked our wives the same question "Do you want him to own a handgun? If you say no he will be denied and never told why." My mom and wife both remember the calls. The neighbors were even called for my father. Neither of us had a single blemish outside a speeding ticket on our records. This is a permit to simply OWN a handgun.

My lawyer buddy went through the process a couple years ago while separated from his wife. They asked him all about the reasons for the separation and then put the same question to his wife that they did to my mom and wife. This is a person with no criminal record or even suspiscion of abuse whose possible soon to be ex-wife (already some bad blood present there) was told she could secretly eliminate any chance for him to own a handgun. This would then spill over to meaning he could not inherit his father's very large collection of handguns.

Trust me Wild, the word of a single woman today can kill your right to own arms and in the corporate world turn you into an unemployable outcast.
 
Sorry to hear about that. These situations are certainly getting out of hand. I propose that women (no offense to any in here) who do this sort of thing and documented as happening more than once, should be labeled as such and should have to weight when it comes to court proceedings or whatnot. Not only that, but the judges who are biased in this sense or have conflicts of interest with the case (i.e. a gun owner and anti-gun judge) should step away from the proceedings or be forced to rule non-biasedly. There's no way that this should have happened just on her word alone. Since when does it come to being w/out any evidence for one side or another at all, that 2 perfect strangers (one male, one female), the female should be believed over the male? That' absurd!

Both these types of women and judges sympathetic to the cause should be thrown in jail themselves. Could he not see that she was going out of her way to stalk you instead (shopping near your mothers, etc). It's messed up.

I second making sure you know what type of girl you have before starting to get into a serious relationship!
 
I know, there are many oppersive countries like England and Australia where gun ownership is under attack(just like it is here) but I'm sure a person can find someplace that'd be more Free then having his Rights taken away here and staying.

Carefull what you wish for. Perhaps some gun laws may be better in some nations but you don't really know the host of other problems present there. Look into the restrictions for shooting at a Swiss public range. The minimal chances of getting a CCW anywhere in the nation. The very different rules about free speech and oabyeing the government's orders.

The culture in the USA is very different than in any other nation I have ever been to or interacted with. Until you really talk to people from such nations you reall cannot appreciate it.

Even with the ATF and many of our, what I consider oppresive, laws I will take life here over any other nation.
 
It's not only the women, folks.

A young lady I know, ex-military, got married after her service and had a child. Things started going downhill after the kid arrived. Husband started in with put-downs and severe criticisms of things she did.

When they finally had their "final argument" he told her to get out if she hated it that much. Then he planted himself in front of the door and told her that he'd demand custody of their child just to rub it in. She wanted to take their child but he refused and said she had to leave now but would have to go through him. She'd packed some clothes, pleaded for him to let her leave and he laughed. "You can't. You want out, I want you out, but if you even touch me, I'll claim domestic violence and get the kid and everything you own." When he moved away from the door she bolted for it, had it open when he kicked it shut. In getting the door open to leave, she bumped him with the door and got out. Then she called the cops.

She told the cops what happened, his comment about making a DV claim but most importantly she was worried about her child's safety. He told the PD that she'd knocked him down and kicked him several times (he: 6'3" her: 5'4") and threatened him, plus another pack of lies about her not caring for the child. Cops claim they had no choice but to "accept" his DV complaint and arrest her.

I won't bore you with more details, but it took six months for her to get custody of her child. She's divorced but he still yanks her chain over visitation rights and fails to send child-support on time.

Personally, I don't think anyone should be arrested on DV charges without some proof of injury to the claiming party. The sad part is that people often lie to the police and courts in order to extract vengance in cases like these.
 
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