BB Gun vs. Air-soft

Z

zippyfusenet

New member
Someone told me there are no stupid questions, but I gotta admit, I feel ignorant as a pig for asking this set.

I'm looking for a functional, accurate pistol to target shoot in my own back yard, in the city. My back yard is small, but it rises into a hill and makes a perfect berm. Of course firearms are right out. I checked with my local PD, and they don't allow compressed gas pellet guns either; anything that will kill a squirrel is a 'destructive device'.

Old-style spring-powered BB guns are allowed, but I can't find a good selection of them. They don't seem to be popular any more.

Should I be looking at air-soft?

I've never had anything to do with air-soft shooting, never was interested in the tactical games. I'm old, slow, fat, and I look like a fool in cammo.

What I want is to shoot a pistol at a paper target, at 7 to 10 yards range, without terrifying the neighbors. I'd like to use a BB-trap target, so I don't litter the yard too much. Ralphie from Christmas Story looks pretty harmless - my back yard gun should *look* like a toy. I don't want to spend a fortune. Later, I might pick up a shoulder-arrn version to share with my grandchildren.

I notice that most air-soft guns are gas or electric powered, but they're not legally 'destructive devices' in any jurisdiction that I've heard of. Is that because they fire a plastic BB at such a low velocity that they usually won't break skin?

Do air-soft guns, firing a plastic BB at low MV, have reasonable ballistics? Are they accurate? Can I get a good one for less than the price of a real gun? What does the ammunition cost, gas + BBs?

Is there somewhere online I can find a good selection of old-style spring-powered guns, that shoot a steel BB at a few hundred FPS?

Thanks for your input.
 
Generally speaking with air guns you get what you pay for. You mention target practice so air soft is out. Yes they can be more accurate then you think but really are better for draw, shoot, holster type drills vs target shooting.

On to my suggestions, which I am afraid are not inexpensive but they will give you great accuracy, great pride of ownership and be very well made.

Beeman P1/Weirauch HW45
These are the same gun. They are spring powered and have the exact same grip as a 1911 and fantastic triggers. They are hard to shoot well as they "recoil" quite a lot and pellets being slower are very easy to throw off target. These are very rewarding to learn and shoot well.

Beeman P3/Weihrauch HW30
These are polymer framed pneumatic guns. You compress a small charge of air that propels the pellet. Almost no recoil. Very accurate. Easy to shoot and again fantastic triggers. They feel like a Walther P99 in the hand.

Weihrauch HW75
Same concept as above but all steel and wood instead with really nice target grips. Fantastic gun.

Baikel IZH46m
This is a Russian target grade single stroke pneumatic like the P3/HW75 above but it is damn near Olympic accurate and has a trigger that can be set to telepathic.

Honorable mention
Beeman P17
This is a cheap Chinese copy of the P3 above. It will probably not last long but while it does folks seem to find them very good.

Now as for the ones you find at Walmart etc such as the Browning URX etc while they feel good and are intrinsically accurate the triggers are usually horrendous and take a lot of the fun out of it.

Take a look at pyramydair, straight shooters precision Airguns, Airguns of Arizona etc.

Save your money and buy something firearm quality. I did not for years and when I finally did I kicked myself for not doing it earlier.
 
Also much like fireArms buying the cheapest crappiest pellet At a big box store is not the way to go. Use quality pellets.

Crosman Premier
H&N field target
JSB exacts

Are some good ones.

Feel free to IM me if you want some pictures or want to pick my brain. I enjoy my air guns as much and sometimes more then the real ones.

As far as a trap. Don't simply buy one. The loud CLANG is more obtrusive then the pop of the airgun (which can be louder then you think). Build a silent pellet trap out of an old steel junction box gutted and field with electrica duct seal. It's silent, will stop anything and will last forever. Again happy to show you mine/how.
 
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If you can shoot a springer air gun, that's what I'd opt for. There are some good ones out there. However, springers are pretty powerful - more than enough to kill a squirrel with, so make sure you can have one.

I have a chinese made springer .22 which is an excellent rifle. It's called the B21/22 - basically a copy of the RWS model 52....with one exception - the Chinese one has an all milled-steel two stage fully adjustable trigger. Makes the RWS trigger system look utterly cheap in comparison! If you buy a B21, be prepared to take it apart and thoroughly clean it before firing it. The factory is notorious for leaving small metal shavings in the gun which will destroy the seals. I did this, lubed it, but it back together and it's been a fine air rifle for about 10 years now.

You MUST have a berm or big backstop to shoot this rifle - if a stray pellet ever went into someone else's yard, it could do considerable damage.

Another good pellet gun - springer/pistol, is the Beeman P1. Shaped like a 1911 (sort of) single shot pellet pistol. Good quality; excellent trigger; easy to cock. 600 fps, so I have less reservations firing this one with neighbors around.
 
Airguns can provide excellent home practice.
For pistols at 7 yards, just do it indoors.
I practice with my airguns in the garage, cars removed, of course.

BB guns and pellet guns will easily go right through the overhead aluminum door though, so a good backstop is necessary.
And they can go a lot farther than one can imagine, so outdoor shooting requires some caution, too.
BBs and airsoft pellets especially, can ricochet, so eye protection is a must with all airguns.

All of my airguns have come from pyramydair.com.
Haven't had experience with the others mentioned, as yet.
They have a very good service, a blog and collection of video reviews to explain and demonstrate airguns of all kinds.
The most accurate are pellet guns with rifled barrels.
But some of the better ($100) BB and airsoft pistols will surprise.

The hands down most accurate of my handgun airguns is the $50 Crosman .357 revolver.
2" groups from 10 yards is normal.
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Crosman_Vigilante_CO2_Revolver/3253
Best practice gun is an airsoft blowback 1911:
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Colt_1911_CO2_Blowback_Airsoft_Pistol_Full_Metal/2537
Mine is an authentic licensed and fully functional version from KWC.
It's about like shooting a .22lr version of the real thing.
 
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it sounds to me that a gbb(gas blow back) airsoft pistol might be the answer. They make them pretty much identical to the real thing, the action cycles (this is the gas blow back part), and its pretty realistic all things considered. They can be a little finicky so you might have to drop some money to get a good one, or check out your local craigslist and you might find someone selling cheap.

the battery operated air soft guns function a little better but there is no blowback action, the battery runs the motor inside that fires out the airsoft bb. These can be quite accurate and fun too just not as realistic.
 
I'd also recommend a gas blowback airsoft or bb pistol. Airsoft has less potential for collateral damage but also less range. Either should be good at 7-10 yards
 
I use an Berreta 84 airsoft (made by Umarex, CO2 cartridge powered) for inside practice when I can't get to the range, shooting paper at about 25'. It's full size, metal slide & frame, blowback, & close to the same weight as original. Since it's smoothbore, accuracy is about +/-4" at that distance. One cartridge lasts for about 140-150 shots. I also have a green gas airsoft blowback of Berreta 92, & it gets about 30-40 shots per fill of the gas magazine. Same accuracy.

It'll take a pellet pistol to get any real accuracy. Mine just give me sight picture and gun handling practice.
 
It really depends on what you are looking to do. If you are looking for precision, you should look into getting a a better quality pellet gun. There is no way they can match the accuracy or precision of a good pellet gun like Baikal listed. If you are looking to do more tactical style training, airsoft works better. Airsoft has less penetration and is less likely to damage anything. I use airsoft for point shooting to practice getting on target quickly. As long as the gun is very similar to your real carry gun in shape and weight, it will improve your shooting. Getting your shot on target quickly is one of the most important skills one can master. Basically, I start from the low ready position and bring the gun up as quickly as possible and try to shoot as accurately, but as quickly as possible. This builds muscle memory and the gun becomes an extension of your arm. This is especially valuable in learning what I call the "reset" position, which is when the gun finishes the movement from the recoil and resets to your point of aim.
 
I can't say for sure, but judging from the policy of his local PD, any pneumatic spring powered might be out, too.

Also, most pneumatics, such as Webleys. RWS, Beeman's, etc. make a fairly loud noise (kind of a loud snap) when discharged, enough to possibly alarm a paranoid neighbor.

On the other hand, if the neighbors are "cool," then any of the nicer pneumatic pellet pistols would be fine. Many years ago, I purchased a Webley Tempest .177 for back yard practice, but found it to be not all that accurate at 10 yards. maybe "soda can" accurate.

My general experience with 6mm airsoft handguns is that they are generally accurate to "minute of cat/dog" at 10 feet or so. For example, a carefully aimed plastic bb will notify the cat that it should not be clawing the furniture, or that the dog best not be raising his leg on the sofa.
 
I use my pellet rifles in the the garage or sunroom. Why would I remove the cars? In many years of shooting I've never put a pellet near the cars. The sunroom is 90% glass but I've never come close to hitting any glass. A simple folded towel is enough for a backstop and I've never missed the trap anyway.
 
A good airsoft is more accurate than one might think.
There should be no trouble keeping the shots in the A zone of a 1/4 size USPSA or IDPA target from 7 yards.
Plenty good enough for practice.

Shoot indoors and the neighbors won't even know.
Mostly I move the cars out of the garage in order to be able to use the full width of the place.
Lots of targets and props.
Sometimes one car stays for practicing shooting from inside one.
Have to be careful about the water heater, though.
 
I'd go for something in an air gun using a rifled barrel & pellets. Spring piston guns are easy to find, I picked up this one LNIB recently. Where are you looking?

Image (C) Wogpotter 2014
DSCF1929_zpssdouffcz.jpg


Even in ultra Liberal MD that's legal on your own property as long as you don't do things like shooting street light bulbs over the fence. That is vandalism.
 
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Where do you live? That would help us figure out what is infact legal.

my first piece of advice is don't take legal advice from a cop. From my experience cops don't really know the law any more than any other random guy on the street. Just a very simplified version of it. Their job is to arrest you. It's the court's and lawyer's job to hash out the details. And your local PD has no authority to "allow" or "not allow" anything. If it's legal then it's legal.

The fact that your PD used "killing squirrels" as an example tells me all I need to know about their understanding of the laws. I don't know of a single jurisdiction anywhere in this country that uses "killing squirrels" as a litmus test for how legal a pellet gun is. Nor am I aware of any that make a distinction between compressed gas and air piston powered guns. Since the air piston guns still compress air, a gas, to fire the BB.

Read up what the law actually says in your state and locality or contact a lawyer that specializes in gun law. Educate yourself regarding what is legal or not. Then you can decide what to buy.

But overall for 7-10 yard shooting, I'd say a good airsoft gas blowback pistol or rifle would be my choice. By good, I mean not from Walmart. They are practically identical to real guns in dimensions, weight and operation. Plus the blowback is just more fun than pellet guns.
 
Hey- another Hurricane owner.

OP- I'd go with a Daisy 717, which shoots .177 lead pellets and is pneumatic, so no recoil, and no HPA or C02 fills. Dollar for dollar it might be the best deal going.

And I'd probably shoot it indoors, where the neighbors can't see you. Yeah, I know, but the first time someone calls the local PD with a "man with a gun" call you'll understand. Build a pellet trap filled with duct-seal modeling clay, and have at it. You can shoot at night, when the weather isn't cooperating, when you only have 15 minutes, etc. Compare the cost of rimfire ammo with pellets these days.

I have a Webley Hurricane with- seriously, at least 50,000 shots fired, a Daisy 717, a couple of Predom Lucazniks, a BSA Meteor, and a Beeman C-1. I love airguns.
 
I have to have at least one Webly by law. Otherwise the revoke my citizenship in The United Kingdom.
;)

Actually re-reading the OP I think your local PD is, to put it politely full of it.
I checked with my local PD, and they don't allow compressed gas pellet guns either; anything that will kill a squirrel is a 'destructive device'.
Click to expand...
"Destructive Device" is a very specific type of "industrial strength" firearm which no air gun is even close to.

All National Firearms Act firearms including destructive devices, must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

The definition of a "destructive device" is found in 26 U.S.C. § 5845(f). The definition reads as follows:

(1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas, (A) bomb, (B) grenade, (C) rocket having a propellant charge of more than 4 ounces, (D) missile having an explosive charge of more than 1/4 ounce, (E) mine or (F) similar device.

(2) Any weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter (.50 inches or 12.7 mm), except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and

(3) Any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled.
Click to expand...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destructive_device
:rolleyes:
 
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