BATTLE TIME: What would you choose?

  • Thread starter Thread starter PreserveFreedom
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Hey smithz, thanks for the input :) I didn't catch the "or" in AlanB's statement, my fault. But in practicality don't you think that hitting a man moving at 800 yards is different than a gong @ 600? When you shoot the gong are you prone w/ sling, unsupported prone, benched, etc.? I'm not saying such shots are impossible, just improbable in a combat situation. Isn't it nearly proven fact that the majority of engagements occur at less than 300 yards? I'm not sure about this but I read it somewhere. Any input would be appreciated :)

PS I reallyreallyreally want an M96! lol But I can't afford it without letting my AR go (I'm a college student) and with the M96 I can't compete in DCM with it :(
 
In regard to the gong, this is from a bench. I am pretty sure I could do the same shooting from prone with a rest (bed-roll, rock, etc). A high-power competitor could probably do the same from standing.

But then again, you're supposed to be behind cover, anyway, right? I don't see using some sort of rest for long shots a big disadvantage since I don't want to be shooting standing out in the open anyway. I recommend shooting IDPA to get in the habit of shooting from cover. Some clubs have tactical rifle side-matches, which are fun.

Yes, hitting anything moving at 800 yards is going to be real tough.

Out here in the west, it's real easy to be somewhere where you can see a long way. Having something to pack a little more punch is attractive. .223 is generally effective when the terminal velocity is high enough to cause the bullet to disintegrate on impact. This cut-off velocity is somewhere between 2500 and 2800 fps for M193 (55gr) and M855 (62gr) ball. (And no, :), I don't want to be hit with it at 1000 fps, but it's something to consider.)

Another thing to consider is that .223 is sufficient for most infantry uses, in part, because of the combined arms techique. They can call in artillary, air support, tanks, etc to deal with anything really nasty, or farther away than a few hundred meters. If the citizens of the USA are fighting the invading hoards, we likely will not have such combined forces available.
 
Preserve Freedom...........havent you and I had this discussion on ICQ a few times............? :)
For ruggedness I would look at an AK, 47 or 74.. Dont own one, but look at how many conflicts the AK has been in and seemed to be a formidable weapon despite varied enviroments and conditions.
For heavier hitting I personally would go wiht an FAL or variant.
An Ar-15 has its plusses because its .223 and something you already shoot, but thats about as far as the pro's I personally see for it go.
SKS is another rugged tough rifle, dont own one, handled and shot a friends. mags are cheap, bayonets are available cheap, all kinds of unique stocks available for it, and like the AK the ammo is real cheap.
M1 Garand, to bloody heavy to be running around packing over hill and under bush. Nice piece of history, and the 30.06 is a wonderful round, but the rifle is to heavy.
M1 carbine, .30 carbine doesnt pack nearly the power or range of .223 7.63x39 or .308. Isnt to cheap to feed either. expansion of commonly available soft points is in my experiance, and this is from a pistol mind you, lacking.
Mini-30, well its a style you are already familiar with, 7.62x39mm is cheap to shoot, dont know about how it would hold up in the field or how easy they are to take down. you would I guess fromy our experiance with the mini-14.

My vote would be for AK-47 or 74 or SKS or if you can afford it FAL. cant afford the FAL, then the SKS might be a little harder to carry than the AK. In the end I personalyl would probably choose the AK, for easy of carry, rugged functioning under adverse conditions, cheapness of ammo, ease of field stripping and commonly and cheaply available mags.
 
Yet another thing to consider when fighting armored goblins is that a faster round with more sectional density is going to "punch through" better than slower, "fatter" rounds - just like how a .22LR might go through a vest that would stop .45ACP.

This would give a definite advantage to the following (in rough order): .30-06 black-tip AP (150gr?), .223 M855 (62gr, steel penetrator), .308 ball, and .223 M193 (55gr), though M193 won't be so good at penetrating over a couple hundred yards.

A definite disadvantage to: 7.62x39 ball, .30 carbine.

I don't know about 5.45x39 since I have no personal experience with it. 5.56 ball (M193) can easily pierce a 1/4" steel plate at 50 yards.

Hollow-points or hunting ammunition in these calibers will generally penetrate less than the FMJ or AP versions, though if the terminal velocity is sufficient, should still defeat armor. I can't properly address the terminal ballistics after passing through armor, however - no idea.

For low penetration (e.g.: in an urban environment you might not want to penetrate walls, while desiring explosive terminal ballistics), varmint-style bullets are useful. Hornady's .223 TAP is essentially a ballistic-tip varmint bullet packaged for LE use.

-z
 
A SIG 550 or PE57.

I know how to handle the guns, they're both very reliable, and the
latter shoots a round equal to the .308. And they're both very
precise, so I don't waste too much ammo.

Also, the PE57 has no gas system that can foul.
 
The original question was introduced with:
I am thinking af purchasing a good secondary semi rifle that would be good for riots or invasion on US soil.
Click to expand...
As sad as it is, we cannot even get our hands on a SIG 550 or PE57, so I don't think we can consider them for this situation.

mussi, could you compare and contrast the 550 to the .223-class rifles we have brought up here, and the PE57 to the full-power battle rifles we have discussed? I doubt that most of us have ever even seen one of these not in pictures, much less used and evaluated one.

We'll try not to drool too much. :D
-z
 
a 30-06 tanker garand with a 6x IER scout scope and 3 point sling. my reason is ergonomics and the way i shoot a rifle. i put my off hand at the ballance point, rifles that have magazines that stick out the bottom don't allow you to do this. my other choice, given 200 yards as max range, an m-1 carbine. it's about the most handy rifle there is. it feels better than my winchester 94 wrangler scout rifle with heavy 45 colt's(another good one for combat i might add) it'll shoot out to 200 yards with coffee can sized accuracy.

to be perfectly honest with you, i'de probably just use my finnish m-39 Accurized with it's 10 power 3 post scope and my Ghillie suit. slung on my back and either a short shotgun(my sxs or pump)or my MAK 11 9mm with mags to spare for long distance walking or close encounters.
 
Gryphon, that ghillie suit won't work in quail season. First thing you know, there's a pointer right by you in a perfect bird-dog pose, with The Boss waiting for you to flush! (Apologies, but the mental picture popped up...)

:), Art

"His face was flushed, but his broad shoulders saved him."
 
smithz, thanks for the reply regarding the gong and I didn't really consider the combined arms technique and the .223 that you spoke of :) Also one thing to consider...if the US were invaded how many of you people have families? For me it would change my choice of arms because I have some loved ones to look after--> if it was just me I would take a scoped M1A, but since its hard to hide in the brush with my fiancee and other family members I would have to take the AR. Does anybody else feel what I'm saying?

Thanks

Dan
 
My advice is to get a early AR-15 (SP1) or a new AR-15 fitted with a 1:11" or 1:12" twist barrel". Using M-193 ball is a dealy combination.

Lets face it would you be shooting beyond 300-400 meters?

The 193 ball will met all your needs.

Turk
 
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