battle of the magnums?

kilotanker,
Example according to hodgdon a 300 win mag with a max load of 84 Grains of retumbo and a 200 grain accubond their velocity is 2962 And muzzle energy of 3900 ftlbs. And your retained energy should be around 2200 at 500 yards. Also according to hodgdon same bullet and powder for the rum at 95 grains for a muzzle velocity of 3096 with muzzle energy of 4200 and retained energy of 2442 at 500 yards. Maybe i am wrong but an extra 200 ftlbs of energy is alot.
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The animal won't know the difference. That is less than 10% more energy retained for over 10% more powder used. The problem with the big magnums is that you run into the point of diminishing returns where incremental increases are just that, incremental.

And where ballistics are concerned, incremental increases are functionally meaningless. As bullet mass increases (something that you will lean towards for long range shooting) the differences get smaller.

300 Win Mag, 220 gr projectile, 2810 fps. 81 gr Retumbo
300 RUM, 220 gr projectile, 2905. 101.5 gr Retumbo

So is the extra 20.5 grains of powder (which is 25% over the Win Mag) worth 95 fps? That depends on your priorities and your wallet I guess.

That extra 95 fps isn't going to turn a miss into a hit for you, you still have to know your dope and have a good wind call.

Jimro
 
Jimro just addressed energy from one point of view.
Maybe i am wrong but an extra 200 ftlbs of energy is alot.
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Here's another way to look at it:

.22 WMR
30 gr bullet
2200 fps
50 yards

That's what 200 ft-lb gets you.
(Hornady 30 gr V-Max factory load)

It retains 201 ft-lb of energy at 50 yards.


But, as long as we're talking about a "rifle without a purpose" ... energy may not matter, at all.
 
The other two are pretty much going to be mail-order only (and pricey at that).
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In Elk country, .300 Weatherby ammunition is easy to come by... A friend of mine just dropped a 340 class Bull at 447 yards with one shot with his .300 Weatherby loaded with a 180 grain partition... In the Thoroughfare in Wyoming, more power is better if you can place the shot...
 
ive never owned a 300 ultra but have had a few of each of 300 wins and 300 wbys. I have two of each right now. Personaly I prefer the wby. Ive shot a bunch of deer with both and out past 300 yards the wby has just seemed to be a quicker killer for me. I know you can post ballistics that show there isnt much differnce and maybe it was just coincidence but ive shot enough deer with both to get that feeling and its enough to make me prefer the wby. As to recoil a pound differnce in rifle weigth will make a 300 win kick just as much as a wby. If you can shoot a win mag you certainly arent going to run and hide from a wby. I kind of get a charge out of guys who allways come and say a 308 is so close to an 06 that theres no differnce or a 06 is so close to a 300 mag or like in this case a 300 win is so close to a 300wby. Well heres the truth. put a deer in front of any of those rifles at 200 yards and place your bullet right and youll be eating venison. But theres no doubt in this guys mind that an o6 hits with more athourity then a 308 and a 300 wby hits with more athourity then a 300 win. At least for anyone that handloads and can load ammo at realistic pressures. Now if your stuck with factory ammo the gap can close as some of it is loaded to rediculously low pressure.
 
All of these are good calibers. Now which can be had is an accurate rifle...

300 WSM - Savage 12 BVSS
300 Win Mag - Savage 112??


The other 2 require a custom gun to buy in an appropriate long barreled target rifle.
 
Lloyd's comment:
But theres no doubt in this guys mind that an o6 hits with more athourity then a 308 and a 300 wby hits with more athourity then a 300 win. At least for anyone that handloads and can load ammo at realistic pressures. Now if your stuck with factory ammo the gap can close as some of it is loaded to rediculously low pressure.
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Examples, please......

What makes you think it was loaded to "rediculously low pressure?
 
.300 Winchester. Much easier and cheaper to find ammunition for, more rifle options, and it will take anything that lives on the North American continent.
 
Nathan

The rum and the win magazine can be had for around 600 in a Remington sps long range. As well as the 7mm rem and the 25-06.

On another note I found a savage 114 HFT in 30-06 today and I am very impressed. The walnut on this gun is hands down better that I have seen on any factory rifle in the same price range. Also it has a straight comb with a raised cheek piece also the cheek piece is kind of shadowed. Best looking gun I have ever seen from savage and a great piece of walnut.

Now I know that's not what I intended for this thread. But I might buy it instead of the long range rifle. And its not that I need an rum win or any magnum I already have a 270. 270 wsm. And next week will have that 30-06 I just mentioned. So I got every thing in north America covered.

I just wanted the magnum for fun. Truthfully I am having a little trouble justifying the extra cost of any of the magnums. Plus when I think about it more for long range shooting I think I would rather have a 257 weatherby magnum in a long barreled varmint gun.

So lets throw another caliber in the mix the 257 weatherby magnum. What do yall know about it?
 
The 257 Weatherby is one of those "hmm..." cartridges.

Roy Weatherby used it to take cape buff, but it clearly isn't best suited to shooting dangerous game. A little on the "way too heavy" side for varminting. Doesn't have too much of an advantage over the 25-06 for taking medium size game at normal hunting ranges.

A distinct lack of high BC bullets makes it a non-starter for long range target shooting.

To sum it up, it's definitely a niche cartridge.

Jimro
 
Lloyd's comment:
Quote:
But theres no doubt in this guys mind that an o6 hits with more athourity then a 308 and a 300 wby hits with more athourity then a 300 win. At least for anyone that handloads and can load ammo at realistic pressures. Now if your stuck with factory ammo the gap can close as some of it is loaded to rediculously low pressure.

Examples, please......

What makes you think it was loaded to "rediculously low pressure?
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the o6 for one. Its loaded to alot milder pressures then the 308 or any of the mag rounds are. The 300 win mag is loaded to milder pressures then the 300wby is. the 264 is watered down to about 270 levels from the factory in comparison to the 7 rem mag. best example is the 06vs308. Go and by factory ammo for both and there about identical in performance but handloading i can get an honest 150 fps more out of about any 06 using ANY weight of bullet. Yes even 150s. It isnt rocket science. It just holds more powder and if you put in more powder its going to go faster.
 
kilotanker22 said:
Just looking to see everyone's opinions between the 300 win 300 weatherby and the 300 rum. No specific purpose. Maybe a heavy barreled long range rifle.

O and from a reloaded point of view. Accuracy, heavy bullets, case life. Not generally for hunting but maybe if a shot at long range presented itself.
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If you really want to get into LR shooting why the magnums first? Why not a .260 Rem or plain old .308 Win to learn with? LR hunting aside for now from the reloaders stand point what isn't to like about the .308 and .260? Easy to find or make brass, long case life, doesn't go through a pound of powder in a hurry, has efficent long range bullets for each caliber, over all is just plain cheaper so you get more time shooting for each dollar spent.


kilotanker22 said:
Yeah the rifle I will have to order. But ammo will be reloaded. Thinking sps long range as it is only 600 bucks. For the weatherby mag I will have to buy an accumark at almost three times that price.

O by the way it will be a heavy barreled gun.
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You don't have to go with the Accumark unless that is the rifle you really want in a .300 Weatherby you can pick up a Vanguard for the same price as the Remington. However they all weigh in between 7.5-8.75 lbs and none come with a heavy barrel at least the rifles in the $600-1200 price range don't. However if you stick with a .308 or .260 both rifles can be had in a heavy barrel in that price range.


I'm pretty new at the whole LR shooting thing and in fact haven't had my rig past 300 yards yet. However when I went looking for my LR cartridge of choice after I looked through them all, I settled on the .243 Winchester. The main reason was price, everything about the cartridge was cheaper for me in the long run. The only reason I don't reccomend it for you is that you are looking for an off the shelf rifle and a good LR .243 requires a special twist barrel you don't get from the factory yet. I built my rifle myself and until I ugrade the optics I got it done for around $1600, I made a few compromises in my build based on budget but I still got most of what I wanted.

20120614175351.jpg


Just some food for thought.
 
Probably hadn't oughta inject "practicality" into this :D but it seems to me that the .300 WinMag is the most practical choice.

Usable on targets to beyond a thousand yards. Plenty of horsepower for any rational North American hunting use at practical ranges. Factory ammo is generally readily available and there are many decent options for a rifle.
 
FrankenMauser said:
The .300 Win Mag is the reasonable limit of .30 caliber cartridges.
It's like the Bugatti Veyron....
The original version only used 266 hp to reach 155 mph, but requires another 721 HP to reach 253 mph. (for 987 hp)
The SuperSport model has 1,200 hp, but that only increases top speed to 267 mph.
The newest model, the SuperVeyron, requires an additional 400 hp for a measly 21 mph increase in top speed (for 288 mph and 1,600 hp).

The .300 Weatherby and .300 RUM are the "SuperSport" and "SuperVeyron". They have to increase chamber pressure and powder charge significantly, to barely surpass the .300 Win Mag's ballistics. To me, the impact on my wallet and barrel life (another hit to the wallet), just aren't worth it.
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When it comes to efficiency, it's hard to beat the .22 long rifle. One grain of powder in a CCI standard velocity long rifle and this gives the bullet 101 ft lb of energy. Over 100 ft-lb of energy for each grain of powder. The bullet outweighs the gunpowder by 40 times.
With the .22 Hornet, I get about 746 ft-lb of energy out of 13 grains of powder. About 57 ft-lb of energy for each grain of powder. The bullet weighs three times as much as the powder.
As you get to those 4000fps+ rounds, you actually find loads where the powder starts to outweigh the bullet. The gun uses most of the powder's energy to accelerate the gasses that propell the bullet.
 
Nathan

The rum and the win magazine can be had for around 600 in a Remington sps long range.
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That looks like a nice rifle, although I usually don't get all excited over Rem 700's anymore.

I like Savage's trigger, buttoned rifled barrel and non-rigid bolt. . .All are good for accuracy.
 
taylorce 1

I have a 243 in Remington 700 sps varmint. With a jewel trigger and pillar bedded stock. With my hand loaded 105 grain amax backed by 38.5 grains of H4350 and cci large rifle primers it will hold just over 1 inch groups at 300 yards when I do my part. Some say that the 105 amax will not stabilize in a 1 in 9 twist bust seems to work well for me.

As far as the magnum goes I agree they are more expensive. Not really needed and I probably won't shoot 1000 yards anyway. I just think it would be fun to have a ridiculously inefficient large magnum in a long range rifle to play with. All my hunting will be done with my 270 and the 06 I am going to buy next week.

Any way keep it coming fellas I am learning a little and always like to see another persons point of view.
 
Kilo. I own both a 257 and a 300 Weatherby. I like them both, both are very accurate, and I wouldn't trade them for anything. Something nobody has brought up yet, but I think is important is when your shooting a 300, stock design becomes much more important than with a smaller rifle. I really love the looks and feel of a Model 70 Featherweight stock. But when you shoot a 300 WSM that bitch kicks you pretty good. My 300 Mark 5 with the factory 26" barrel is much nicer to shoot with the same weight of bullet. A Weatherby Accumark is tailormade for what your doing and has the same stock design as my rifle. The Remington products just don't seem to be put together as well as they used to be. Sure you could buy it for $600 bucks but then spend that much again trying to get it to shoot. You can't hardly beat Norma brass for reloading either.
 
I have a 7mmRM reamer, a 300WM reamer, and a 338WM reamer.
I have lots of other reamers too, and I have been compulsively building rifles for myself.

I think that 7mmRM is the best for long range that I have tried.

Obviously the 458WM is not the best, and neither is the magnum case necked down to .177" the best.

The optimum is somewhere in between, and I think that peak of performance is with the 7mmRM.

I can't hit the broad side of a barn compared to Bart Bobbitt, but I am killing animals at long range.
 
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