BATFE Bans Some Bullets

T

thallub

New member
Elite Ammunition says that the BATFE has told the company to stop selling their Trident bullets in certain calibers. Elite claims that the BATFE has re-classified some rifle calibers as handgun ammo. This happened years ago when the ChiCom steel core 7.62x39 ammo was banned from import: Someone chambered a handgun in that caliber.

http://www.eliteammunition.net/newsletters/newsletter/7385257/81014.htm

BATF and EA Recent Finding.

EA has had to remove our Trident bullets in .223, 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC. The BATF has ruled that all of these cartridges are now pistol cartridges. Since they are now pistol cartridges their construction now falls under the content and construction limitations of the 68 GAC and pistol cartridges.
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Sounds like a pure 'anti' everything ruling to me.
Banned if you do, banned if you don't.
Right and wrong doesn't matter.
Actually, I didn't know there were restrictions on the manufacture of ammo of any kind.
Sort of expect that exploding would be banned but didn't/don't know it for a fact.
 
Actually, this may be a problem, particularly in California. Elite Ammo alleges that their ammunition is substantially similar to Barnes and other copper-based "green" ammo that is currently legal to purchase.

The AP ammo ban affects only handgun ammo; but bans bullets made completely from beryllium copper, bronze, tungsten, steel, iron, etc. or alloys of the same materials.

If .223 ammo can't be purchased because it has lead and is bad for the environment and it can't be purchased because it has copper and is "armor-piercing" by law if not by function, then places with restrictions on lead ammo are not left with much of an option for those calibers.

Not to mention that the Barnes TSX bullets are suprisingly effective in .223.
 
Not to mention that the Barnes TSX bullets are suprisingly effective in .223.
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Indeed they are. i've killed about 40 wild hogs using the 53 grain TSX bullet in my .223 guns. Several of those hogs went over 250 pounds and three weighed over 300 pounds. Most bang flopped.
 
Those who have T6 ammunition and PFP bullets will be contacted by the BATF to recover any bullets or ammunition that have not been FIRED yet.
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From the Elite public statement.

That's interesting, has that been done before?
 
Ban the BATFE and rescind all their rulings. They are not a legislative body and do not have the power to make law. Their propensity to break the law and to arbitrarily punish people for minor offenses that they themselves are guilty of puts them beyond the pale. It is time to take the F and E out of BATFE.
 
I'm unfamiliar with the relevant statutes. Is the BATF free to determine at its own discretion those chamberings which are handgun cartridges and which are rifle cartridges with no grievance or appeal process?
 
The authority comes from 18 USC 921(a)(17)(B) which defines armor-piercing ammunition as:

The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

(C) The term “armor piercing ammunition” does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Attorney General finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Attorney General finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device.
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Since a .223, 6.5 Grendel, or 6.8SPC may be used in a handgun (AR pistol, Thompson Contender), any ammunition which is constructed entirely from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium, is armor-piercing unless the Attorney General finds it primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes.

Once again, the "sporting purposes" clause rears its ugly head...
 
Once again, the "sporting purposes" clause rears its ugly head...
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Funny how the Bill of Rights doesnt require a sporting purpose, I think in time this can and will be defeated in court... The 2A doesnt require a sporting purpose...

If these same rules were applied to other rights I dont think the masses would react as well.... Thank you BRoberts you bring a wealth of information and patriotism as always! :)
 
It sems to me that with this, as well as other sudden, movements in the anti's direction of choice, in light of the varied faux paus' in the news lately, that someone seems to be getting ready for something...

Does anyone else get the same feeling?

Are these new bullets? Or are they just coming to the attention of TPTB for some other reason?

Although 'common sense', seems to be easily defined, why do those who continue to create more and more "common-sense" policies, still insist on poking the bears?

I don't get it. Do they think that we will continue to roll over until we fall into the ocean?
 
Does anyone else get the same feeling?
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Not quite. I get the feeling these little things, are it....and there are likely more of them that were floated over the last months. Discussed here as well.
They said there wasn't gonna be legislation, the pres would use his other tools...that leaves rules, orders, and decrees. This is the latest of many more papercuts to come, is my guess.....uneducated.
 
Sporting purposes -- I can just imagine someone tucking a Contender in his hip pocket to rob a bank..... Sheesh! :eek:
 
Those who have T6 ammunition and PFP bullets will be contacted by the BATF to recover any bullets or ammunition that have not been FIRED yet.
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I have a feeling quite a few people will be heading to the range this week.
 
the ATF can't find 2000 weapons that they had under surveillance, you do not realistic think they are going to try find all these bullets do you?

Ya, I'm sure this is going to make out streets safer...not
 
It is time to take the F and E out of BATFE
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I have always wondered what they actually do with the A and T. We should try to use their logic to our advantage. IE 9mm bullets can be used in a handgun so therefore we should be able to have AP 9mm bullets. I don't really like the term handgun and rifle ammunition since most bullets can be used on either platform.
 
Um, something seems slightly amiss here. A quick google search for on the subject yielded nothing more than Elite's statement and discussion of it on various forums. Given the implications that this has, if true, it seems odd that none of the various pro-gun organizations (NRA, GOA, SAF, etc.) haven't mentioned it yet. Also, I've not been able to find any such ruling on ATF's website.

Also, the whole confiscation thing doesn't quite add up as, insofar as I can tell, the mere possession of armor-piercing handgun ammo isn't in and of itself illegal (though the sale or manufacture of such is). As such, it would seem that so long as the ammo in question was not classified by ATF as AP handgun ammo at the time it was purchased, they would have no legal grounds to confiscate it.

Finally, discussion of the issue on several other forums suggests that the ammo in question may not use plain-old copper as Barnes and others' bullets do but rather materials under the "evil list" of 18 USC 921(a)(17)(B). Also, there has been discussion on other forums about questionable business practices by EA including publishing a "blacklist" of banned customers and threatening one customer with reprisal from a "friend in the NFA". This thread sums it up (note, some foul language contained)

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1205447_Stand_down_all_you_drama_queens_At_Elite_Ammo.html/page=4

Now, I am not affiliated with EA or any of their competitors nor have I ever had any dealings with EA, I'm just passing on what I've seen. However, given the discrepancies in EA's story and the less than flattering things I've seen about them elsewhere, color me skeptical on this one until we've got some sort of third-party verification.
 
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