Basement shooting range.....

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steve1147 said:
Does anyone really believe a couple hundred rounds in the basement each week with an exhaust fan blowing out an open door is so much worse that ANY indoor shooting range where tens of thousands of rounds each week are expended by guys standing right next to you?
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For starters, your original post made no mention of "fan." You just wrote that you were going to open the door.

That said, even with a fan, where will the fan be located relative to the shooting station, and since a fan blowing air out the door will need a source of make-up air or it won't be doing anything -- where's the source of the make-up air?

I shoot at an indoor range. There's a supply air duct that runs behind the shooting stations with an outlet directly behind each lane, pushing air (under pressure from a supply fan) right into each booth. There are four VERY large exhaust fans at the target end of the range pulling air out of the space. There is a very definite and perceptible air flow away from the shooters.
 
Just circulate fresh air in, stale air out. Wash your hands after shooting.
It's not gonna kill you.
If you notice any strange symptoms, see your doctor and have him do a test for overexposure to lead.
 
I'm not buyin' all the doomsayers here.
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Oh I get it. You asked what we thought in your first post, but you didn't really want to know what we thought. You just wanted for us to tell you how cool you were for wanting to put in a basement range. We all mistakenly thought you wanted serious input and several of us expressed very real safety concerns, but since we weren't on board with your cool plan, you have completely discounted us as doomsayers.

The bottom line is that what you are proposing to do in the manner that you are proposing to do it is inadequate and it is obvious from what you have described that you haven't a clue as to what is necssary to make it adequate but that you aren't willing to put forth the effort to do it.

Chelation therapy isn't fun.
 
Lead poisoning from a indoor range.... Really, boy I guess everbody drinks the kool aid nowdays. Im not saying it couldnt happen or cant happen and maybe its already out on the internet somewhere but really....

Wow everyone go buy a bubble and a air filter and sit at home in terror.. :p

I guess I should have died years ago because I have done tons of indoor poorly ventilated shooting and even used a couple of indoor ranges in the military... I guess I will have to get my affairs in order, woe is me.. lol

I guess I will have to call my father and tell him the same because hes been shooting at indoor ranges without dedicated ventilation for more then 50 years.... That green koolaid is bad stuff..
 
Lead poisoning from a indoor range.... Really, boy I guess everbody drinks the kool aid nowdays. Im not saying it couldnt happen or cant happen and maybe its already out on the internet somewhere but really....
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Ever have your blood tested for lead? I taught and ran an indoor range at our Army Reserve post and while the ventilation wasn't bad it wasn't up to today's standards. We only fired 22's, 38's and 45's 2 days a week and I still had elevated levels after 2 years. You might not feel it but if you shot half as much as you say you did then you do too. I think I got most of my exposure from cleaning up after the session was over. Today I know I should have wet mopped but nobody told me back then and I just used a broom.
 
BGutzman said:
Lead poisoning from a indoor range.... Really, boy I guess everbody drinks the kool aid nowdays. Im not saying it couldnt happen or cant happen and maybe its already out on the internet somewhere but really....
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Kool Aid?

Tell that to my doctor at the VA Hospital. A couple of years ago, at my semi-annual checkup, the doc nearly exploded because my blood lead level had skyrocketed. She asked what I'd been doing. What I had been doing was shooting in a competition every Thursday night at an indoor shooting range. The doc was VERY concerned. I thought she was overdoing it, but she remained adamant that I was looking at serious problems and that I needed to bring the level down a lot, like RIGHT NOW.

So, I stopped competing, and I also significantly reduced the amount of time I spent shooting there outside of competition. And six months later, my blood lead level was nearly back to normal.

Really ...
 
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It's been my experience that at a decent commercial indoor range, most of your exposure is due to what you're shooting since the ventilation system is designed to move the air downrange. You get some of your own smoke, but the next guy's is not likely to get to you because of the airflow pattern and the dividers.

In other words, shooting a couple hundred rounds at an indoor commercial range would be pretty similar in terms of exposure to the shooter as shooting the same number of rounds at an indoor home range. Except that any decent commercial indoor range has heavy duty ventilation and filtering specifically designed to reduce lead exposure from airborne lead. Indoor home ranges almost never do.

And while it's true that a home range won't generate as much lead residue as a busy commercial range, but there are certainly other issues that make shooting at a home range more problematic than shooting at a commercial range.

You leave the range and go home. When you do, you get away from the lead residue. The lead residue you generate at home stays there unless you can figure out how to clean it out without spreading it all over (and likely increasing your exposure) during the cleaning process. The lead compounds in the smoke from the primers will settle out on any exposed surfaces in the shooting area and build up over time.

Any lead residue at the range is the range's problem, you won't be held responsible for cleaning it up. They know how to clean up. If you sell your house and someone later tests for lead in the basement because their kids aptitude test scores start plummeting or they start showing other lead poisoning symptoms, you can only hope that they don't figure out how the lead got there or that they're really nice people who wouldn't make you pay for lead abatement or sue.

If I really wanted a home indoor range, I'd either limit it to airguns only with a soft pellet trap (no airborne lead contamination) or firearms using only lead-free ammunition (including lead-free primers).
 
We moved a garage from a corner of the property, to a pad about 250 ft behind the house, and we've been shooting out the back door. This is going to be our winter range area. We're putting in power and a wood-burner. Nice to be able just to sweep the brass up.
 
OK, I got enough encouragement from shooters who aren't afraid of their own shadow, and enough doom and gloom from the guys who believe global warming and seem to NOT have time to shoot at all because they're posting over 8,000 times to go ahead with this. I learned a lot. I'm putting the bullet trap right under a basement window and building a shelf there to sit a blower on moving massive amounts of air out. The open basement walk-out door will be to my rear and slightly right, to bring in fresh air. I'll only wet-mop/clean the area. With this configuration, I can only have a 7 yard range, but it's better than nothing, I shoot a lot of 7-10 yard in the backyard.
Thanks for all the input.
Steve W.
 
Kool-Aid.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5423a1.htm
http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/dc/OH/shooting.html
http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=elwdterm...b404&csid=Elwd
http://children.webmd.com/tc/lead-poisoning-symptoms
http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/H...eadHazards.htm
http://www.mass.gov/Elwd/docs/dos/ia...lead_alert.pdf
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Kool Aid - blood tested and all is normal

I love it when people run all over with the green thing. In this case its probably a bit more justified but honestly as a society we might as well dig the grave now and stand in it if you believe all the stuff put out nowdays.

You cant avoid all risk in life and Im not against reasonable precautions but we have developed a culture of gloom and doom...
 
If you're brining the cold air in anyway for ventilation why not just go outside?

I don't have a basement, but If I did it would probably be filled with too much junk to set up a firing line.:)
 
OK, I got enough encouragement from shooters who aren't afraid of their own shadow, and enough doom and gloom from the guys who believe global warming and seem to NOT have time to shoot at all because they're posting over 8,000 times to go ahead with this.
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It may comfort you to think that's the kind of people responding to you but you'd be wrong.

I've done the vast majority of my shooting at indoor ranges including the last time I shot a firearm which was this weekend and the last time I shot an airgun which was at my home indoor range.

I've never had my lead levels tested because I'm not a doom & gloom sort and because I take reasonable hygiene precautions when shooting or when dealing with any sort of lead exposure. For me that's soldering with lead solder, cleaning firearms, handling airgun ammunition, shooting at indoor ranges, etc. Lead exposure isn't some thing that I'm afraid of, it's just something that I'm informed about. After getting all the facts and weighing the risk, I decided that I'm not interested in putting smoke containing lead compounds into the air inside my home. There are a number of things I do that I wouldn't necessarily want to do inside my own house.

Finally, no one's saying that shooting indoors can't be done safely. The simplest approach would be to use lead-free ammo with lead free primers. That kind of ammunition is widely available, and when you consider the fact that you'll save on range fees and gas driving to the range means you'll probably be able to more than make up the cost difference for buying lead free ammo. It will certainly simplify clean-up issues and completely eliminate any possibility of problems with future owners having issues with lead contamination.

If you absolutely must use lead ammunition, then I suggest you get some input from an indoor range operator on ventilation and how to deal with removing particulate buildup.
Kool Aid - blood tested and all is normal
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Great that your levels are normal. However that doesn't change the fact that shooting at indoor ranges has been shown to result in elevated lead levels in many cases. The range you use may have very good ventilation, or there may be other reasons why you haven't had problems, but that's not evidence that it won't be a problem for anyone and it obviously isn't proof that it hasn't caused problems for others in the past.

It certainly doesn't prove that concerns about lead exposure at indoor ranges are "Kool Aid".
You cant avoid all risk in life and Im not against reasonable precautions but we have developed a culture of gloom and doom...
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No one has suggested avoiding all risk. I assume we're all shooters here and that certainly comes with at least some level of risk from a variety of sources. In addition, a good number of us use indoor ranges either for most of our shooting or perhaps even exclusively. There's a huge difference in trying to avoid all risk and pointing out the risk so that people can make informed decisions.
 
One person, shooting in a properly ventilated basement, is not like shooting in a competition line.
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Right, but nowhere stated by the OP was it that he was going to be shooting in a properly ventilated basement and he gave no indication of knowing what constituted a properly ventilated basement. His original plan was the opening of a single door. His revised plan was to put a fan in the doorway.

You cant avoid all risk in life and Im not against reasonable precautions but we have developed a culture of gloom and doom...
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Once again, nothing in the OP suggested he knew what reasonable precautions were or that he actually understood the risk. While we can't avoid all risk, we can avoid intentionally creating unnecessary risks. The guy wants to shoot in his basement because it is too cold outside. Come on. This is an unnecessary risk that can be easily avoided.
 
Even shooting lead bullets, you can reduce lead fumes by several means if you reload or cast.

Fillers or gas checks will help preventing the base of the bullet to melt from hot gases.

While this leads to a reduction of lead in the air, it is no elimination of toxic substances and proper ventilation is still a must.
 
A couple of years ago, at my semi-annual checkup, the doc nearly exploded because my blood lead level had skyrocketed. She asked what I'd been doing. What I had been doing was shooting in a competition every Thursday night at an indoor shooting range. The doc was VERY concerned. I thought she was overdoing it, but she remained adamant that I was looking at serious problems and that I needed to bring the level down a lot, like RIGHT NOW.
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Probably one of those Docs that wrote down in your report that you own firearms too!!! Just so they can put you on the "high risk" list.

Lead poisoning from shooting? How about this quote from the OP:
I shoot home cast bullets,
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Did the Kool Aid drinkers miss this one?
 
With the proper precautions shooting home cast bullets isn't any higher risk than shooting purchased cast bullets. It's not like you have to be exposed to unhealthy levels of airborne lead just because you cast.
 
The point I intended was that the OP already exposes himself to the lead fumes, and contact with the skin when he casts bullets. I don't have a problem with that either. I have been casting bullets for probably over 40 years, and fishing weights and lures for probably 10 more. No EPA special equipment involved. Just an exhaust fan over the lead pot.
 
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