I'm close to pulling the trigger on a 308 bolt action with either a Winchester M70 (pre-64) or a Howa 1500 barreled action. Both are new production, stainless steel, 22", standard profile, 308 caliber, and they'll cost virtually the same amount. I plan to use a custom laminate stock from the same manufacturer (stock manufacturer) in any case, so the stock isn't a variable, just the barreled action. Any opinions on which is a better (more reliable, material quality, barrel accuracy) stock barreled action? I don't know anything about Howa barrels, but I've read that stock M70 barrels are pretty good. Thanks!
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Barreled Action: Howa 1500 vs Winchester M70
- Thread starter danielj
- Start date
If it were me I would go with the Win as I prefer controlled round feed actions to push feed actions.
In terms of quality, you should find both absolutely top notch for factory offerings. FN has done good things for the Winchester brand IMHO, and the Howa 1500 has a well deserved reputation for excellence.
Jimro
In terms of quality, you should find both absolutely top notch for factory offerings. FN has done good things for the Winchester brand IMHO, and the Howa 1500 has a well deserved reputation for excellence.
Jimro
steveNChunter
New member
Two good choices so you're a winner either way. If you prefer CRF then Winchester is the obvious choice between the two. Also check out the Ruger M77 Hawkeye for another good stainless CRF .308. I would also recommend CZ but they are blued only IIRC
I'm confused. The OP says the Winchester is a pre-64 Model 70 action, but he also says it's new and stainless steel. Is it an new Winchester Classic (CRF) action?
A Howa will be a true short action. An actual pre-64 Model 70 action is long enough for a full length magnum like the 375 and is longer than required for a 30-06, much less a 308.
Whether this is important or not is an individual preference. If the Winchester is new production the point is moot because the new actions are offered in a short action length.
A Howa will be a true short action. An actual pre-64 Model 70 action is long enough for a full length magnum like the 375 and is longer than required for a 30-06, much less a 308.
Whether this is important or not is an individual preference. If the Winchester is new production the point is moot because the new actions are offered in a short action length.
Unlicensed Dremel
Moderator
Winchester all the way. At the very least, you have a steel 3-position safety. But how is a new production going to be pre-64? Hopefully it will be the new "controlled round push feed" actions which is even better, IMO.
But I dunno - are they making two different kinds of actions presently? The standard, AND one which is labeled "pre-64"?
Edited to add, to respond to Mobuck below:
Indeed it is. But that's not the reason the Win is better IMO - it's due to the safety and a better stock trigger.
But I dunno - are they making two different kinds of actions presently? The standard, AND one which is labeled "pre-64"?
Edited to add, to respond to Mobuck below:
CRF is far overrated for normal hunting rifles.
Indeed it is. But that's not the reason the Win is better IMO - it's due to the safety and a better stock trigger.
Last edited:
steveNChunter
New member
I think the OP is getting "pre-'64" from the way Winchester is advertising that it's model 70's are a CRF action.
This is from Winchester's website:
A lot of people identify with "pre-'64 Winchesters" as automatically being superior to any other rifle ever made. FN/Browning knows this and they do their best to mention "pre-'64" every chance they get when referring to Winchester products.
Edit: just saw that danielj beat me to it
This is from Winchester's website:
Just a few years ago, in 2012, it was the 75th Anniversary year for the Model 70. It doesn’t happen often that a firearm has the endurance to celebrate its 75th Anniversary. The Winchester® Model 70 earned it, with thousands of sportsmen the world over having relied on its smooth-handling Pre-‘64 style action and legendary accuracy.
Today's Model 70 has the all new M.O.A.™ Trigger System, improved fit and finish and enhanced accuracy to go along with its classic Pre-’64 controlled round feeding, Three-Position Safety and solid, sure handling. The M.O.A. Trigger helps the model 70 deliver the extreme accuracy benchmark 1" group at 100 yards. It’s what you deserve.
PRE-’64 STYLE CONTROLLED ROUND FEED WITH CLAW EXTRACTOR fully controls the cartridge from magazine, to chamber, to ejection
A lot of people identify with "pre-'64 Winchesters" as automatically being superior to any other rifle ever made. FN/Browning knows this and they do their best to mention "pre-'64" every chance they get when referring to Winchester products.
Edit: just saw that danielj beat me to it
The Howa/Vanguard action is the heaviest made. While the Winchester isn't the lightest, it is considerably less. If you are wanting a heavy barreled target gun it may not be a factor, but for a hunting rig it would be for me. Laminated stocks are very heavy as well. You'll probably end up with a 10 lb rig after getting it scoped if you go Howa and Laminate.
Winchester all the way for me.
Winchester all the way for me.
Howa has made parts for Browning and Weatherby, if that tells you anything about their qualityI don't know anything about Howa barrels
Great endorsements of Howa quality, I'll definitely have to look into Howa actions some more. I'm no spring chicken, but I'm up to lugging a 10+ pound rifle through the woods for a week or two--that's part of the appeal of hunting for me. I really appreciate a well made, durable--and usually heavy--piece of machinery. I also enjoy suffering to some extent. The past few years in CO have occasionally prompted thoughts of "lighter", but I'm hoping to move back to the SE coast permanently, so maybe those thoughts won't come back at sea level--at least for a couple decades... In any case, I just really enjoy handling robustly built, quality firearms that my grandchildren will hopefully inherit. My pistols are steel CZ and my other rifles are CZ and a G3 clone, so I'm more than OK with what many others consider excess weight. I know polymer and aluminum alloy firearms are probably more durable than steel over the long term, and I keep meaning to buy one, but I just find heavy metal so much more appealing...
weatherby rifles have been killing big bad bitters and stommpers for decades with out CF, i have both CF and non CF rifles and don,t choose my rifle for the hunt because of that. on two hunting trips to africa i used both CF and non CF rifles, CZ-375h&h, howa-300win mag and a REM-7rem mag. and never had a problem. learn to work your rifle and you will be ok. eastbank.
Geezerbiker
New member
I can vouch for Howas being heavy. I have a .223 varmint model in a Boyds laminated stock and there's times it feels like it weighs a ton...
Tony
Tony
trigger643
New member
The current production Howa 1500 and current production FNH/Winchester M70 are both high quality actions and you'll not be disappointed with either. Both would make an excellent choice.
If I were building a hunting rifle it would be a difficult decision, perhaps one best decided with a coin toss.
I will point out the Winchester M.O.A. trigger. Some like it. Some do not. I didn't care for it. Fortunately an inexpensive alternative is a Timney trigger. This was purely a personal preference and not reflective of the quality as a whole.
If I were building a hunting rifle it would be a difficult decision, perhaps one best decided with a coin toss.
I will point out the Winchester M.O.A. trigger. Some like it. Some do not. I didn't care for it. Fortunately an inexpensive alternative is a Timney trigger. This was purely a personal preference and not reflective of the quality as a whole.
steveNChunter
New member
I recently owned a Howa with their newer trigger. It's much better than the older Howas. It's a two-stage that is adjustable, mine went down to 2.5#. The rifle was a .25-06 w/ a sporter profile barrel that I bought as a barreled action. I dropped it in a Hogue synthetic stock with an aluminum bedding block. It shot terrible groups with most factory ammo, Federal Fusion being the only exception. It shot right around 1 MOA. My best handloads got it down to 3/4 MOA, which was plenty accurate for a hunting rifle. The only reason I sold it was the weight, which was made worse by my stock choice. I'd like to get a heavy barreled Howa someday and drop it in a laminate stock, stick a big fat scope on it and have a benchrest/varmint rig. But as for something I'm going to carry across the mountain, I'll pass on the Howa.
trigger643 said:I will point out the Winchester M.O.A. trigger. Some like it. Some do not. I didn't care for it. Fortunately an inexpensive alternative is a Timney trigger.
A Timney trigger's a cheaper alternative, but I'll just point out the FN SPR action is the same action as the new M70s, but with the well-regarded pre-64 trigger. Best of both worlds. CDNN used to sell the action alone, but they're long gone. I wish I would've bought a few of them. I did luck into a custom 7mm-08 built on an FN SPR action, though, and can highly recommend them if you stumble on one.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
IMHO:
I would go with the Samurai 1500 special. Only because of its Updated P/F design. CRF is a old antiquated design. Like owning your Great Granddaddy's 1902 Stanley Steamer for every day driving. Why would you.
Getting back on subject:
Perhaps you intend to drop your weapon in the mud to camouflage it before every hunt. If that's going to take place than that's the receiver & action you need for your build >(CRF.) Otherwise a nicely machined Howa Push-Feed would meet or exceed your expectations. No doubt about it.
I would go with the Samurai 1500 special. Only because of its Updated P/F design. CRF is a old antiquated design. Like owning your Great Granddaddy's 1902 Stanley Steamer for every day driving. Why would you.
Getting back on subject:
Perhaps you intend to drop your weapon in the mud to camouflage it before every hunt. If that's going to take place than that's the receiver & action you need for your build >(CRF.) Otherwise a nicely machined Howa Push-Feed would meet or exceed your expectations. No doubt about it.
Really!! I hope not.I know polymer and aluminum alloy firearms are probably more durable than steel over the long term,