Bare essentials for Coyote?
- Thread starter drhunta2
- Start date
Here is a good web site for people geting into coyote hunting.
http://www.varmintal.net/ahunt.htm
Hope this helps.
Michael.
http://www.varmintal.net/ahunt.htm
Hope this helps.
Michael.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
I've posted a fair amount about my views on coyote hunting. You might try a search for "Art Eatman + coyote" or some variation...
, Art
, ArtEthics of Coyote hunting
Art - I have read a lot of your threads and replies in the past. In searching your name with Coyote it pulled up a rather long thread that seemed to go into an ethical discussion. I am a fairly young guy (33) but am very appreciative of the opinions and thoughts of those who have gone before me. I didn't think much about the ethical issues with regards to Coyote hunting. My family has raised me to eat what we kill. I am kinda embarrassed that I didn't stop to at least question it. My dad would be a bit disapointed I reckon. Can you clearify where you fall on this? Is it ethical, is it a worthy pursuit? Are there conditions ie. farms, suburbs etc. that you feel make it a more ethical pursuit?
Art - I have read a lot of your threads and replies in the past. In searching your name with Coyote it pulled up a rather long thread that seemed to go into an ethical discussion. I am a fairly young guy (33) but am very appreciative of the opinions and thoughts of those who have gone before me. I didn't think much about the ethical issues with regards to Coyote hunting. My family has raised me to eat what we kill. I am kinda embarrassed that I didn't stop to at least question it. My dad would be a bit disapointed I reckon. Can you clearify where you fall on this? Is it ethical, is it a worthy pursuit? Are there conditions ie. farms, suburbs etc. that you feel make it a more ethical pursuit?
MeekAndMild
New member
Thanks for the link lil bro. Coyotes are back around here after I thinned them down a bit last winter/spring so I'm always interested in learning more. Speaking of ethics your link led to this interesting page. http://www.varmintal.net/attac.htm
drhunta I wouldn't worry too much about eating these critters, though this year I'm considering investing a few dollars in the common household chemicals needed to tan their hides. http://www.motherearthnews.com/library/1983_January_February/How_To_Tan_Rabbit_Hides
drhunta I wouldn't worry too much about eating these critters, though this year I'm considering investing a few dollars in the common household chemicals needed to tan their hides. http://www.motherearthnews.com/library/1983_January_February/How_To_Tan_Rabbit_Hides
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urbanassault
New member
Mannlicher
New member
I kill them with an iron sighted Colt Competition HBAR, and Winchester soft points. As far as ethics go, a dead Coy dog is ethical.
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A number of year ago my oldest son and I boiled fur bearing animals skulls for a school science project, the stench from the coyote was remarkable. I believe it would be ethical to try and eat them one time... :barf:
There are a number of critters that I have hunted that I have absolutely no inclination to try and eat. Coyote tops the list, also included are crows, old racoons, fox, bobcat, feral pigeans, and certain boar black bears. Your Dad was right in training you to eat what you kill... to a point.
There are a number of critters that I have hunted that I have absolutely no inclination to try and eat. Coyote tops the list, also included are crows, old racoons, fox, bobcat, feral pigeans, and certain boar black bears. Your Dad was right in training you to eat what you kill... to a point.
Let me be clear - I HAVE NO intention of eating a coyote, but Art's post's at least raised a legitimate question. As for what is needed to hunt coyote, the M60 footage was awesome, but until one falls into my hands I will either be using a shotgun or a 7mm-08. What I guess I really wanted to know is how and when to hunt them. From what I'm reading it sounds like it's done mostly at night. Do you then use spot lights? What kind of scope should I look for or should I be using open sights? The calling seems like it is mostly about trial and error and practice. Thanks again for the help, and if anyone has the new M60 that they want to bring along, I would love to have you out to hunt coyote with me.
Gary Conner
New member
Dear DRhunta2:
I hope this will help you on your feelings about the ethics of killing coyotes, and not eating them.
We raise goats here. I imagine there are some folks raising sheep or goats near you.
You will never see anything more pitiful than a young kid goat with the front of his face eaten off because he accidently got his nubbing horns caught in a net wire fence, and a stray dog or coyote came along and got him before I could find him and get him loose from the fence.
Coyotes, when you start seeing "a bunch" as you say, are a predatory problem, and I am sure farmers or ranchers in that area would be very pleased with them being thinned out.
I hope this will help you on your feelings about the ethics of killing coyotes, and not eating them.
We raise goats here. I imagine there are some folks raising sheep or goats near you.
You will never see anything more pitiful than a young kid goat with the front of his face eaten off because he accidently got his nubbing horns caught in a net wire fence, and a stray dog or coyote came along and got him before I could find him and get him loose from the fence.
Coyotes, when you start seeing "a bunch" as you say, are a predatory problem, and I am sure farmers or ranchers in that area would be very pleased with them being thinned out.
Wild Bill Bucks
New member
Your dad was right in what he taught you with one exception, the animals you like to eat will soon disappear if the animals that eat them are left un-checked.
Varmints like yotes,coons,skunks,possum,ect. eat Quail and their eggs, rabbits, pheasent, ect.
Harvesting preditors will enhance the desirable game in any area.
The population of wild turkeys and quail in our area was almost gone about 10 years ago due to preditors. After several people got involved with preditor hunting, we now have a good population of wild turkeys and quail that have come back to the area.
Rabbits have also made a big come back to the area.
The way most of the guys around here yote hunt is with a good call and a .223 or .204 with a simmons red dot scope(No magnification and lets you set up and shoot at night without a spot light.)
They set a dummy bait(Rabbit or chicken) in an area that is fairly open for a few yards around it, and back off far enough to see the open area in the scope. If anything comes in after the bait, you can silouette it in the red dot scope and shoot.
Varmints like yotes,coons,skunks,possum,ect. eat Quail and their eggs, rabbits, pheasent, ect.
Harvesting preditors will enhance the desirable game in any area.
The population of wild turkeys and quail in our area was almost gone about 10 years ago due to preditors. After several people got involved with preditor hunting, we now have a good population of wild turkeys and quail that have come back to the area.
Rabbits have also made a big come back to the area.
The way most of the guys around here yote hunt is with a good call and a .223 or .204 with a simmons red dot scope(No magnification and lets you set up and shoot at night without a spot light.)
They set a dummy bait(Rabbit or chicken) in an area that is fairly open for a few yards around it, and back off far enough to see the open area in the scope. If anything comes in after the bait, you can silouette it in the red dot scope and shoot.
FirstFreedom
Moderator
Hey WBB, do armadillos eat quail eggs? Any reason to shoot them?
TexasSIGMan
New member
From a University of Texas study on armadillos and damage they cause.
So, the ethics of shooting armadillos might be debatable since most damage could be prevented through other means.
Protecting livestock from coyotes, however, does not seem to have any alternatives except coyote population control, well any means that are remotely financially viable.
Coyote control without killing involves VERY expensive things like producing livestock indoors, herding livestock into indoor pens every night, or building exclusion fences which are VERY expensive.
Guard dogs and guard donkeys (don't laugh, coyotes hate donkeys for some reason) can be somewhat effective but in large open ranges not always reasonable.
Some states are playing with a collar similar in function to a flea collar that livestock would wear, soaked with a chemical compound known to be thought of as nasty by coyotes. The effect of that on the livestock and the beef they produce is still being looked into.
A good number of my family members are still cattle ranchers in West Texas and there just doesn't seem to be an alternative to thinning the population. The M-44 cyanide ejectors were popular for a while, but the chance of a dog getting into one too great, those things are just too indiscriminate. Same with trapping, you never know what you'll get. Live trapping just moves the problem to someone elses land.
So that leaves hunting. If I acknowledge that the coyote population needs control and I acknowledge that devices are too indiscriminate then that leaves shooting.
So, ethically I don't see any problems with coyote hunting in beef country.
As for technique, yes there is a lot of trial and error. Where I grew up the wounded rabbit calls were king, but other types didn't seem to work at all. Took us a while to find exactly the right combination.
That's part of the enjoyment of coyote hunting to me, watching the animals, learning their behavior, basically spying on them to figure out how to beat them. They are pretty crafty animals.
So, the ethics of shooting armadillos might be debatable since most damage could be prevented through other means.
Protecting livestock from coyotes, however, does not seem to have any alternatives except coyote population control, well any means that are remotely financially viable.
Coyote control without killing involves VERY expensive things like producing livestock indoors, herding livestock into indoor pens every night, or building exclusion fences which are VERY expensive.
Guard dogs and guard donkeys (don't laugh, coyotes hate donkeys for some reason) can be somewhat effective but in large open ranges not always reasonable.
Some states are playing with a collar similar in function to a flea collar that livestock would wear, soaked with a chemical compound known to be thought of as nasty by coyotes. The effect of that on the livestock and the beef they produce is still being looked into.
A good number of my family members are still cattle ranchers in West Texas and there just doesn't seem to be an alternative to thinning the population. The M-44 cyanide ejectors were popular for a while, but the chance of a dog getting into one too great, those things are just too indiscriminate. Same with trapping, you never know what you'll get. Live trapping just moves the problem to someone elses land.
So that leaves hunting. If I acknowledge that the coyote population needs control and I acknowledge that devices are too indiscriminate then that leaves shooting.
So, ethically I don't see any problems with coyote hunting in beef country.
As for technique, yes there is a lot of trial and error. Where I grew up the wounded rabbit calls were king, but other types didn't seem to work at all. Took us a while to find exactly the right combination.
That's part of the enjoyment of coyote hunting to me, watching the animals, learning their behavior, basically spying on them to figure out how to beat them. They are pretty crafty animals.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
I guess coyotes are one of the few animals I'll call up and kill, even without the livestock issue. (Not that I'm all that active.) I guess it's a numbers game.
Coyotes are a mixed blessing. They kill feral cats, which is good for the quail/rabbit population. But, they also kill quail and rabbits. They probably kill more field mice than they kill other critters, but so do hawks.
In some areas, coyotes have helped the quail population by predation upon egg-eaters such as raccoons. I guess that might include possums as well.
I guess I take comfort in knowing that nobody, repeat, nobody, is ever gonna kill the last coyote. They originally were mostly a plains-states animal. Now they're throughout the lower 48.
The downside is that they'll kill pets. And, near Phoenix, there is at least one documented case of an attack on a small child.
Regardless of the good or bad of any animal, as determined from a human morals standpoint, I'll always believe in a quick and clean kill. I'm sorta proud that no coyote I've ever shot had more than a very few seconds of not-dead-yet.
I don't pretend to be 100% consistent. I like to hear coyotes yodelling at night; I just don't want too many--as I judge "too many"--and it probably has to do with my own notion of eating quail.
But no matter how good anybody is at calling coyotes, some are gonna learn to not come to that siren call. And they'll raise more coyotes...
Art
Coyotes are a mixed blessing. They kill feral cats, which is good for the quail/rabbit population. But, they also kill quail and rabbits. They probably kill more field mice than they kill other critters, but so do hawks.
In some areas, coyotes have helped the quail population by predation upon egg-eaters such as raccoons. I guess that might include possums as well.
I guess I take comfort in knowing that nobody, repeat, nobody, is ever gonna kill the last coyote. They originally were mostly a plains-states animal. Now they're throughout the lower 48.
The downside is that they'll kill pets. And, near Phoenix, there is at least one documented case of an attack on a small child.
Regardless of the good or bad of any animal, as determined from a human morals standpoint, I'll always believe in a quick and clean kill. I'm sorta proud that no coyote I've ever shot had more than a very few seconds of not-dead-yet.
I don't pretend to be 100% consistent. I like to hear coyotes yodelling at night; I just don't want too many--as I judge "too many"--and it probably has to do with my own notion of eating quail.
But no matter how good anybody is at calling coyotes, some are gonna learn to not come to that siren call. And they'll raise more coyotes...
Art
Bowhunter57
New member
drhunta2,
I don't care much for night hunting. Reason being that you don't always get what you want during the calling. At night, I call more "trash" animals than I do in daylight hours. First and last light hours have been my best times for calling.
As for weapons, this is a personal choice. I carry a Rock River Arms A4, but I've shot them with a shotgun and bow as well. It can depend on what type of calling that you intend to do. A heavy varmint rifle that you'd sling and carry into a stand where you'll sit and call and then relocate, will work just fine. However, if you're going to run them with dogs or if there's a chance that you could see coyotes on the way in and out to your calling stand (s), a light weight carry rifle or shotgun would be a better choice.
The ranges that you intend to hunt will determine your weapon choices too. Open ranges will call for a rifle, as close ranges will call for a shotgun, handgun or bow.
Calls whether they're hand or electronic, decoys, camo are split between personal preference and what works for you.
Talk with these guys for more information:
www.predatormastersforums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php
www.s12.invisionfree.com/PredatorManagers
Good hunting, Bowhunter57
I don't care much for night hunting. Reason being that you don't always get what you want during the calling. At night, I call more "trash" animals than I do in daylight hours. First and last light hours have been my best times for calling.
As for weapons, this is a personal choice. I carry a Rock River Arms A4, but I've shot them with a shotgun and bow as well. It can depend on what type of calling that you intend to do. A heavy varmint rifle that you'd sling and carry into a stand where you'll sit and call and then relocate, will work just fine. However, if you're going to run them with dogs or if there's a chance that you could see coyotes on the way in and out to your calling stand (s), a light weight carry rifle or shotgun would be a better choice.
The ranges that you intend to hunt will determine your weapon choices too. Open ranges will call for a rifle, as close ranges will call for a shotgun, handgun or bow.
Calls whether they're hand or electronic, decoys, camo are split between personal preference and what works for you.
Talk with these guys for more information:www.predatormastersforums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php
www.s12.invisionfree.com/PredatorManagers
Good hunting, Bowhunter57
TexasSIGMan
New member
You are right Art, no one is gonna get them all!
When I was a teenager my friends and I tried our best, but we didn't even get close. That was back when the pelts were still used for government issue fur coat linings. We made enough money that none of us had to get "real" jobs in high school, but we didn't even put a dent in the population.
As for the quick clean kills I completely agree. Lots of the ranchers then (early 80's) were still using the cyanide ejectors. I've seen the evidence of those horrible things, there's nothing humane or quick about them. The coyote was supposed to fall dead in its tracks right there. We would find carcasses a mile from one of the things and you could clearly tell what the cause of death was. Awful. Plus the wild dogs that would get hold of them. I'm glad those are gone.
As for equipment, I built a rifle my Freshman year in high school specifically for this. There was a gunsmith in Abilene, TX that had the chamber reamer and dies made up for it, he was selling them specifically for coyotes.
It's a 6mm-06 52 degree shoulder wildcat. It's a necked down 25-06 case using a very light Nosler Ballistic Tip 6mm bullet and a LOT of H414 behind it.
Crazy velocity and shot very flat allowing us to have a clean kill from a good distance. It's just an old Interarms Mauser action and a heavy .24cal barrel. but it's a super straight shooter.
I agree with the early morning and late evening times. We used to spend the entire night up on a hill calling when we were "working" and those were the times we had the best luck.
When I was a teenager my friends and I tried our best, but we didn't even get close. That was back when the pelts were still used for government issue fur coat linings. We made enough money that none of us had to get "real" jobs in high school, but we didn't even put a dent in the population.
As for the quick clean kills I completely agree. Lots of the ranchers then (early 80's) were still using the cyanide ejectors. I've seen the evidence of those horrible things, there's nothing humane or quick about them. The coyote was supposed to fall dead in its tracks right there. We would find carcasses a mile from one of the things and you could clearly tell what the cause of death was. Awful. Plus the wild dogs that would get hold of them. I'm glad those are gone.
As for equipment, I built a rifle my Freshman year in high school specifically for this. There was a gunsmith in Abilene, TX that had the chamber reamer and dies made up for it, he was selling them specifically for coyotes.
It's a 6mm-06 52 degree shoulder wildcat. It's a necked down 25-06 case using a very light Nosler Ballistic Tip 6mm bullet and a LOT of H414 behind it.
Crazy velocity and shot very flat allowing us to have a clean kill from a good distance. It's just an old Interarms Mauser action and a heavy .24cal barrel. but it's a super straight shooter.
I agree with the early morning and late evening times. We used to spend the entire night up on a hill calling when we were "working" and those were the times we had the best luck.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
I've gone out in the far back country where coyotes don't really know what people are. I've called them up in the middle of the afternoon and had them run in circles around the truck, barking. I guess it's, "Where's my rabbit, you SOB? You promised me a rabbit!"
I don't ever shoot one of those. Can't. Laughing too hard.
But Ol' Wily does have that one bad habit, when leaving: Stop and look back. Big Mistake...
Art
I don't ever shoot one of those. Can't. Laughing too hard.
But Ol' Wily does have that one bad habit, when leaving: Stop and look back. Big Mistake...
Art
GUNSMOKE45441
New member
My little female Redbone came out of the woods about 30 yards behind a coyote her first time out, I laughed so hard I had to sit down in the snow
I day hunt Coyotes! I set up with a good view and put a decoy out in front of me 25 yards and call. I hunt them with 12 ga. and .270wsm.
I don't hunt them at night. I don't have a problem killing coyotes on an ethics level. They not only kill and eat some of the same critters I hunt to eat, they have no natural predators to speak of, and their population can grow unchecked.
(I know of the stories of Mountain Lions eating coyotes. That is another story.)I help keep the coyote population checked.
They also kill and sometimes eat fawns. (I have found dead, not eaten, fawns mauled, bitten and pulled apart)
Last fall, I witnessed for the first time, a mature doe run by my treestand at full gait, followed shortly by a coyote at full gait. 20 feet between them and me with only a bow and arrow. I barked but the coyote kept chasing.
You finish the story on that chase for yourself, I didn't witness the end.
I set up overlooking as much down wind pasture as I can find and still be in cover of a tree or treeline.
I do not eat them. I will never eat them. I kill them to keep their numbers in check. I do not believe I can make them extinct. Ethically, kill every one you see and you will only scratch the surface of the pack. One gets killed, another one is taking it's place before you get home.
This is just my opinion and there are many different opinions on this matter.
If I could kill, in my area, all but a male and a female every spring, I would be happy.
I don't hunt them at night. I don't have a problem killing coyotes on an ethics level. They not only kill and eat some of the same critters I hunt to eat, they have no natural predators to speak of, and their population can grow unchecked.
(I know of the stories of Mountain Lions eating coyotes. That is another story.)I help keep the coyote population checked.
They also kill and sometimes eat fawns. (I have found dead, not eaten, fawns mauled, bitten and pulled apart)
Last fall, I witnessed for the first time, a mature doe run by my treestand at full gait, followed shortly by a coyote at full gait. 20 feet between them and me with only a bow and arrow. I barked but the coyote kept chasing.
You finish the story on that chase for yourself, I didn't witness the end.
I set up overlooking as much down wind pasture as I can find and still be in cover of a tree or treeline.
I do not eat them. I will never eat them. I kill them to keep their numbers in check. I do not believe I can make them extinct. Ethically, kill every one you see and you will only scratch the surface of the pack. One gets killed, another one is taking it's place before you get home.
This is just my opinion and there are many different opinions on this matter.
If I could kill, in my area, all but a male and a female every spring, I would be happy.
Wild Bill Bucks
New member
FF
Don't laugh about this, but people around here, have some pretty good recipes for Ardmiller.
Never eaten any myself, but some people here tell me it is a really white meat, and very tasty.
They are root eaters mostly, so they may be right.
I don't think they eat other animals, but they might eat the eggs if given the chance.
I know your snickering, but thats the gospel.
Don't laugh about this, but people around here, have some pretty good recipes for Ardmiller.
Never eaten any myself, but some people here tell me it is a really white meat, and very tasty.
They are root eaters mostly, so they may be right.
I don't think they eat other animals, but they might eat the eggs if given the chance.
I know your snickering, but thats the gospel.