Ballistics on 25 ACP....and.... 32 ACP

[Mike Irwin]

You missed, and are continuing to miss, the critical point that Fackler proved, through many years of research, that testing in ballistic gelatin very closely matched how the same bullet would perform when hitting a human.

Ballistic gelatin delivers results that far more closely match actual shooting results far better than any other testing medium -- by a WIDE margin.

It does NOT say that bullet X will guarantee a one-shot stop in a rampaging human.

What it does say is that bullet X, when fired into a human target, has significant chance of both expanding AND penetrating to the depth considered necessary to reach vital internal structures.

Again, no other repeatable testing medium has shown to the same level the ability to predict, with fair certainty, how a bullet will perform when it hits a human target.

You're getting hung up, and are continuing to get hung up, on the "OMG NOT THE SAME SO IT DON'T MEAN CRAP!" premise.

 

[wild cat mccane]

32 is getting a new Federal load soon. Announced DEEP in 32

The 380 Deep revivals lots of 9mm loads for expansion and penetration, so it will be interesting to see what it can do.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

The .25 and .32 acp have been "not working" for 120 years!

 

[TruthTellers]

32 is getting a new Federal load soon. Announced DEEP in 32

The 380 Deep revivals lots of 9mm loads for expansion and penetration, so it will be interesting to see what it can do.

I have not seen this, do you have a source you could post a link?

 

[wild cat mccane]

Sure thing:

https://www.federalpremium.com/this-is-federal/new-products/

DEEP is magic to the 380 in that what never worked perfect seems to work perfectly in this...It will be interesting to see what DEEP can do with 32, if anything interesting.

 

[stuckinthe60s]

what model beretta was the tip up 25 cal bbl back in the 80's?

 

[Bill DeShivs]

The model 950 tip up was imported from the 1950s until 1968.
Beretta USA then made the 950S (safety,) and later came out with the model 20-which was basically a double action 950S.
Later they introduced the model 21 D/A pistol in .25 and .22LR.

 

[stuckinthe60s]

thanks bill.
im thinking i was eyeing a 950s (20) d.a. back then. the trigger wasnt a 1911 style sliding trigger. it was more like a revolver with open space behind it. follow me?
heres the flyer i picked up way back then.
time sure did fly.

 

[stuckinthe60s]

what people forget to include is the 25/32 is suppose to be a deterent, not a stand your ground defense gun.
i was always taught these little guns were known as 'break contact guns.' or, 'late night parking lot bang bang, run guns.'
problem in todays world, the bad guy easily out guns the victims.
there is a purpose and a place for these little guns.
a 25acp protected my MIL in her late 90's at her bedside.
brandishing it would be enough until cops came, if a dishonest homecare provider tried steeling something in her home. everyone who cared for her knew she had a gun. but only mom knew where.
in other words, the gun did its job.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Stuck-
Yes, that was the model 20. I have a couple of them here. They are nice little guns.

 

[Webleymkv]

I noticed in the link that wild cat mccane posted that in addition to the .32 Auto Hydra-Shok Deep he was referencing, Federal is also introducing a .25 Auto loading in their Punch line with a 45 gr "jacketed solid". Seems like Federal is using the same formula for the .25 as they did with their .22 LR Punch: a lighter non-expanding bullet at higher velocity to maximize penetration. I will be interested to see how both the .32 HS Deep and .25 Punch perform.

 

[wild cat mccane]

Yes.

But I consider the Federal "Punch" line total garbage or rebranded CCI.

The 25 Punch will be an FMJ that costs people 2xs more. No thanks, Federal. Hornady and Sig both dropped nickle plating cases, charge the same, but I haven't heard a single fear of function or performance hit.

"Punch" is a marketing trick only.

 

[Webleymkv]

originally posted by wild cat mccane
But I consider the Federal "Punch" line total garbage or rebranded CCI.

The 25 Punch will be an FMJ that costs people 2xs more. No thanks, Federal. Hornady and Sig both dropped nickle plating cases, charge the same, but I haven't heard a single fear of function or performance hit.

"Punch" is a marketing trick only.

While I don't know that I'd call it "garbage" I would agree that in most calibers the Federal Punch isn't particularly special particularly when compared to Federal HST which, when bought in 50 round law-enforcement boxes, can often be had for the same or less money.

That being said, Punch does seem to do very well in .22 WMR and, in particular, .22 LR as the options for good defensive ammo in these calibers is more limited than for larger centerfires. What interests me about the .25 Punch is that they appear as though they might follow the same formula as the .22 LR Punch: a lighter, non-expanding bullet at higher velocity to maximize penetration. This might be a good idea in a .25 because I really don't think you'll be able to get such a small, low velocity bullet to both expand reliably and penetrate adequately. In such as case, maximizing penetration would seem like the best option.

While 5 gr of bullet weight doesn't seem like much, remember that that's a full 10% of the weight of a standard .25 FMJ loading. A 10% reduction in bullet weight, in other handgun calibers, can often allow for an increase in velocity of 75-100 fps. Again, while 75-100 fps might not sound like all that much, when you're talking about a cartridge like .25 Auto that's going less than 800 fps to begin with it's a substantial increase.

You might be right that .25 Punch is little better than overpriced American Eagle FMJ in smaller boxes, but I'll wait to see some velocities and gel tests before I reach that conclusion.

 

[Carmady]

im thinking i was eyeing a 950s (20) d.a. back then. the trigger wasnt a 1911 style sliding trigger. it was more like a revolver with open space behind it. follow me?

As Bill said, that's a Model 20.

It's really a TDA, traditional double action, pistol. The first shot can be fired either DA or SA. For DA take it off safety (if it's on) and pull the trigger while the hammer is down. For SA cock the hammer to fire the first round.

Either way the first shot is fired, all subsequent shots will be SA as long as the shooter pulls the trigger.

Here's a pic from an owner's manual I found on the 'net. Steal it while you can.