Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Hooligan1 said:
My original statement:
Me said:
Ballistic Tip Failures......
- Thread starter JarheadHunter
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My original statement:
reynolds357
New member
Realistically speaking, bullet failures are a legitimate concern when taking deer with Cartridges such as the .220 Swift, .257 WBY, .264 Win Mag. etc. Poor bullet selection in one of these type cartridges can lead to game lost due to bullet failure, or more accurately stated "Game lost due to poor bullet selection." On the other hand, in a .30-30 WCF, you can shoot cast, Hollow point, round nose, leveroution, or whatever else you want barring the accelerator sabot and bullet failure is not going to happen on a deer.
From Hornady's Web Site:
A-MAX®
Designed by match shooters for match shooters. With an ultra-low drag tip, our A-Max match bullets feature an aerodynamic secant ogive that delivers flat trajectories with excellent uniformity and concentricity. Find out more...
•Rapid, explosive expansion with limited penetration.
•Recommended muzzle velocity range: 2000+ fps.
•These bullets are not recommended for hunting.
In my view, using AMax bullets on big game is ludicrous, and they are more expensive than the proven Interlocks and SSTs.
603Country
New member
Reynolds357 is correct about using (not using) explosive bullets in rifles like the 220 Swift for deer. When I was host hunting (me being the host), I let the guests shoot deer, and I'd plug the occasional coyote with my 220. Well, if the ranch house got low on meat, they'd call me on the radio to shoot a doe. Often all I'd have was that 220, and it would have the old Nosler 55 grain Solid Base Boattails, which were less explosive than today's Ballistic Tips. It was iffy shooting deer with that bullet, so finally I'd just borrow a guest's rifle. Like so many others have said, ya gotta match the bullet to the job. I use a lot of BT's but I won't use a Varmint Ballistic Tip on a deer. Not anymore I won't.
And I sure hope the OP isn't using those pointy hard plastic tipped bullets in the 336 tubular magazine. That's disaster waiting to happen.
And I sure hope the OP isn't using those pointy hard plastic tipped bullets in the 336 tubular magazine. That's disaster waiting to happen.
The 30-30 Zmax IS NOT the Amax bullet re packaged. It is the FTX, which is a deer slayer. Had the deer been hit in the vitals with this bullet it, you probably would have found blood and a dead deer nearby. The deer either wasnt hit in the vitals or wasnt tracked far enough due to thick cover. It happens...
JarheadHunter
Inactive
Being that the extended doe season in South Texas is over this weekend. I will be stuck to shooting only hogs untill I move. I will sight in with these remaining rounds (again) this weekend and when i go out for some piggy wiggy's I will post what happens.
Saltydog235
New member
Heck, if its pigs, just make sure you hit them somewhere so they crawl off and die. Buzzards need to eat too, same as worms.
Let's put this to bed. I just got off the phone with Hornady. The ZMax is a plinking/varmint bullet. ANYTHING WITH a MAX DESIGNATION IS NOT FOR GAME USE. The smaller calibers are similar to the VMax. The only bullets Hornady recommends for game is Interlock, Interbond, GMX, FTX, and SST.
L_Killkenny
New member
I don't care who you talked to at Hornady, the 160gr .30-30 zmax is not a varmint bullet. For matters of simple physics .308 varmint bullets are pretty much limited to 100-110 gr, sometimes up to 125. Hard to make mid and upper weight bullets (for caliber) with much splat factor. I'm sure much of their zmax line is constructed around varmint bullets and their pat answer is gonna read as much but it's pretty easy to see the writing with this .30-30 bullet. As also stated, they aren't gonna design a completely new "varmint" flex tip just for the zombie line .30-30. Think about it brother? The .30-30 zmax is the same as the leverevolution.
As for putting it to rest I'm all for it. The shooter didn't do his part plain and simple.
Saltydog235
New member
Thank you for your vast knowledge of ethics.
Pigs are like roaches, flies and mosquitoes here. Nothing more than vermin to be wiped out by whatever means necessary so that native wildlife can flourish. Do you process and eat and of those? How about coyotes, groundhogs, rats and species such as that? Don't preach to me on a eradicating a pest.
gunrunner1
New member
My son and I both have Marlin MXLRs in .308 Marlin Express and both of us have shot a number of deer with them. I can tell you that the 160 grain flex tip bullet is absolutely devastating on deer. I have shot deer with a number of different calibers, and I have lost a few of them. Neither my son or I have lost a deer that was shot with the flex tip bullet.
By golly and shucks!!!!!! Y'all are going after something that just ain't there! JarHead shot twice and got hits. Maybe it is the bullet ant maybe it is the shooter. The 30-30 has probably killed more large game in North America than all the other calibers combined. It is a slow moving hard hitting round....regardless of the bullet type. My suggestion is this, shoot them in the 10-12 inches of the neck that extends from the shoulder and your game will always be right where you squeezed the trigger. They don't run off and make you HUNT them again.
It has worked for me for the past 30 years and I use a little ole .243 with 100gr soft points on deer and elk. Success every time.
It has worked for me for the past 30 years and I use a little ole .243 with 100gr soft points on deer and elk. Success every time.Some years back I hit a 150 pound doe with a .44/300/XTP at less than 20 yards, from a 5 1/2" Redhawk. I'd chronographed the load at 1310 fps and shot it into enough water jugs, wet-pack etc. to know it would expand well within the first hundred yards.
Everything was perfect... I was sitting in a low tree stand, the doe stopped, and the front sight settled exactly where the shoulders meet the spine. My press-off was perfect. What I didn't count on was the yearling that snuck up behind her and shoved his cold nose under her udder.
My 'perfect shot' turned into 'How the #&@**$ did she get over THERE??' She took off at a sprint down a 200 yard grown-up waterway, towards some woods with a big creek running through them. I thought 'I know I hit her good' and bailed outta the tree to pick up my deer.
I immediately picked up a bright red blood trail, high on the brush she passed, so I figured '50 yards tops'. 45 minutes and 275 yards later, I found her dead in a creek bottom a full 300 yards from where I shot her.
I learned that she moved as I shot her, and I hit her a good 5-6 inches behind the shoulder, right under the spine. The bullet had still expanded which was evident from the quarter-sized exit, and it clipped the major vessels along the spine. I learned something from that.... if you hit them too far back, you are in for a tracking job. I've found several dead deer in the woods over the years, lost by the folks who shot them in almost exactly the spot I hit that doe.
I've got a few rounds of Leverevolution (or whatever you call it) 30-30 laying around here but Ive never killed anything with it. I'm quite happy with the Sierra 150 over 34.0 grains of H4895 or Winchester's Power Point factory load. I do use the Nosler 150 BT at 2940 from a 30-06 and at 220 yards, it still smashes deer like Thor's hammer.
Assuming a good hit
Everything was perfect... I was sitting in a low tree stand, the doe stopped, and the front sight settled exactly where the shoulders meet the spine. My press-off was perfect. What I didn't count on was the yearling that snuck up behind her and shoved his cold nose under her udder.
My 'perfect shot' turned into 'How the #&@**$ did she get over THERE??' She took off at a sprint down a 200 yard grown-up waterway, towards some woods with a big creek running through them. I thought 'I know I hit her good' and bailed outta the tree to pick up my deer.
I immediately picked up a bright red blood trail, high on the brush she passed, so I figured '50 yards tops'. 45 minutes and 275 yards later, I found her dead in a creek bottom a full 300 yards from where I shot her.
I learned that she moved as I shot her, and I hit her a good 5-6 inches behind the shoulder, right under the spine. The bullet had still expanded which was evident from the quarter-sized exit, and it clipped the major vessels along the spine. I learned something from that.... if you hit them too far back, you are in for a tracking job. I've found several dead deer in the woods over the years, lost by the folks who shot them in almost exactly the spot I hit that doe.
I've got a few rounds of Leverevolution (or whatever you call it) 30-30 laying around here but Ive never killed anything with it. I'm quite happy with the Sierra 150 over 34.0 grains of H4895 or Winchester's Power Point factory load. I do use the Nosler 150 BT at 2940 from a 30-06 and at 220 yards, it still smashes deer like Thor's hammer.
Assuming a good hit
Gunplummer
New member
1. I kill deer with Hornady 55 Gr V MAX bullets in my .223
2. This year was the first time I ever used a 30-30 to hunt deer.
I used Remington 170 Gr Corlockt bullets in the 30-30. The 30-30 shredded the lungs on a doe and it jumped, and then walked off through the brush. I knew I had a good hit but it sure did not seem like it. That deer went a long way considering it was just wandering along. I am not impressed with a 30-30 and would NOT use hollow points in it to hunt. Experience tells me to use the fancy bullets (Hollow points) with high velocity rounds. I really drop deer fast with the .223 and V-MAX bullets. If you pay attention to a lot of the posts praising specialty bullets, you will see most are shooting high velocity rounds.
An old Jarhead
Tracking dogs? I guess you could always eat the dog if he can't find the deer.
2. This year was the first time I ever used a 30-30 to hunt deer.
I used Remington 170 Gr Corlockt bullets in the 30-30. The 30-30 shredded the lungs on a doe and it jumped, and then walked off through the brush. I knew I had a good hit but it sure did not seem like it. That deer went a long way considering it was just wandering along. I am not impressed with a 30-30 and would NOT use hollow points in it to hunt. Experience tells me to use the fancy bullets (Hollow points) with high velocity rounds. I really drop deer fast with the .223 and V-MAX bullets. If you pay attention to a lot of the posts praising specialty bullets, you will see most are shooting high velocity rounds.
An old Jarhead
Tracking dogs? I guess you could always eat the dog if he can't find the deer.
Saltydog235
New member
BS. And not that it matters, I don't. I could care less about a nasty swamp pig. Anything over 150lbs and toting a set of nuts around here takes a week of softening before the worms and buzzards will work on it. The only time I gut shoot one is if I miss blowing their brains out. And personally I don't care how they die or how long it takes them, just as long as they do. I take more pity on a mosquito. BTW, you process and eat coyotes, ground hogs, rats and the like? That's hard core.
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