Bad guys in my area are starting to wear vests

F

Falcon642

New member
I fully understand if this thread has to be locked. Thread title says its all, just a little freaked out and here's why.

I'm a teacher, and over the weekend the police raided the home of one of my students on evidence that he had broken into and stolen from several homes in the area. The police found several weapons and body armor. My student's older brother (also one of my students) is the leader of a local gang that has been in a turf war with another gang and the arms race between the two gangs has escalated.

So gang members wearing vests, obviously the #1 tactic is to avoid areas where they are at all freaking costs. However, in the event that a confrontation occurs, what should a law abiding citizen carry?

Currently I have a .40 and a .380 that I carry. Obviously the .380 won't do much, what should I load in my .40 that a civilian can buy?

Thanks guys, what a world we live in eh?
 
Neither of you handguns will penetrate body armor with any type of ammunition that is legal for you to own (purpose-made armor-piercing handgun ammo is not legal for civilians). You do have a few options in handguns depending on the type of vests that you're likely to be facing. If the BG's are wearing level III or level IV vests, forget it as those will stop many centerfire rifles. With a level II vest, however, you may be able to punch through with the right cartridge. A 7.62x25 can penetrate a level II vest with standard FMJ ammo.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page1242.htm

Honestly though, if you're that worried, you should probably start practicing some failure-to-stop drills (changing your aim to the head or groin) and maybe consider keeping a rifle in the car (a .223/5.56 and some SS109 would seem like a good idea).

The good news is that body armor is heavy, hot, and just generally uncomfortable and I rather doubt that Johnny Gangbanger straps on his vest to go bouncing about the 'hood on a daily basis. He might wear it to do a drive-by or something of that nature, but avoiding gang contact would seem to be a good way to minimize yourself as a target for such an activity.
 
I wouldn't worry too much about BG's wearing vests. From what I understand, at close range, .40 S&W to the chest is going to hurt like heck. Sure, the guy might live, but your gun is not rendered useless.
 
Myself and the guy who I took my conceal class with were talking about this and both wondering about the 500mag....while it probably wont penetrate a vest....we both figure it would send the person wearing it many ft. back from where originally struck.:eek:
 
This chart has been circulated a lot. Body armor is found here and there for the time being, but I imagine that in the next few decades you'll see it quite often.

I was reading a book on pistol tactics a while back that suggested firing only a couple of shots to the body, then immediately attempting to shoot for the head, pelvis would also be a good target.
 

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Failure drills. Pratice, pratice, pratice. 2 to the chest, 1 to the head. The chest shots are going to hurt even if they do no real damage and the shock effect might buy time for a good head shot.

The 500 is not going to send the bad guy back any further than shooting it is going to send you back. Laws of physics come into play here, but I'm sure that a 500, even through a vest is definately going to get his attention. He'll probably think the vest failed.

Bill
 
A head shot with a .40 should do the job. Otherwise in this situation I would also keep an AR-10 (or a DPMS LR8M4) close by. Either rifle will produce the desired result regardless of shot placement. Adittionally if you are a reloader find some 30/06 surplus A/P (available on line and at gunshows) pull the bullets and load them on to commercial .308 Winchester brass then keep a 20 round mag full of these for your AR-10 handy in case the need arises.
 
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hmmm

Aim high, fire often. My wife will not get in her car without pepper spray and her S&W in 45Colt. Will not penatrate vest but will make an impact.
 
If I lived in an area where I was starting to worry about things like this, I'd pack up and move.
Click to expand...

+1

If its getting to the point where you feel that the bad guys have become brazen, leave if you can. I've seen / lived near several less than desirable locals. The problem with gangs is that its a numbers problem. Its darn near impossible for an indivisual to win over the long term.

-If its getting that bad, move.
-If you can't, do what you can to avoid the attention of the gang.worry more about making your home an unattactive target (lights, dog, alarm, quality deadbolts on STURDY doors in STURDY FRAMES), the local police many times will help asses what is required.
-If the above fails, hope that your training (by a qualified instructor) will carry the day. Fight.
-If you haven't trained, bad news, the internet does not bestow skills upon keyboard commandos.
-Ammunition will probably not solve your problem.

VR

Matt
 
The police found several weapons and body armor.

Were there any more details as to the nature of the weapons and body armor? They may have been no more than a pellet gun and a surplus flac vest. Police reports, in my area at least, are exercises in creative writing when it involves this type of issue. Newspaper accounts tend to be flights of fancy.
 
2 to the nuts and 1 to the head.

Seriously, a crotch shot will break some serious bones and the bad guy will go down like a sack of potatos.
 
I remember Gordon Liddy recommended shooting at the knees of a SWAT entry team. For home defense, B/G with vest getting hit with a slug will most likely incapacitate B/G and some buckshot high or low will stop the fight. Otherwise, with a handgun, I would shoot for head or groin or leg/knees at close range if I knew they had a vest on. Most officers who die in the line of duty are shot in the head from most every account I read.
 
Forget the headshot! Remember the N. Hollywood bank heist of a few years ago.A dozen or more trained police officers were unable to stop the two bad guys who had body armor and automatic weapons.In fact the only headshot that was effective, was the self inflicted one fired by one of the bad guys.
 
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