Backup guns

I can honestly say I have never carried a back-up weapon. I mean if someone is that poor of a shot that they need a backup, then maybe they should not shoot at all. Ha, only kidding of course, but I have never carried more than one CCW at one time. My 0.02 cents. THX.
 
maximus.
Very good question. About half the time I'm riding with a regular and going about normal patrol. I work under his "authority", when I tackle a BG it's still his collar, he's the LEO. On our own we have much less authority and are regulated by the Saftey Director and Cheif of police,but that's for directing traffic and football games and a local stadium... I'm not armed often when "on duty" but I have had possession of the shotgun on many calls over the last 14 years. ( mostly alarm calls in our area.) We are not state certified but we do have a training program that Ohio and my city requires for us to complete but I don't know if lots of things have changed since I did it. We do have lots of monthly training sessions and I've spent a few to many weekends in Columbus for my wifes liking. I love the range time we get monthly...can anyone say free ammo? Hope that answers your question, and yes, it's mostly volunteer, that's why we get respect from most of the regulars. I used to spend lots of time but with my real job demands and my family i'm happy to say i've found a good balance.
Anyone interested in doing some good in there own neighborhood should look into Aux police work. It's interesting, you get real life experience (for those that want to try police work) and it beats helping out at bingo.
 
J-Framer:

You are quite correct in your assertion that most criminals (that I have come across, anyway) do not carry multiple weapons, or holsters, or flashlights, tactical or otherwise. They usually carry a weapon only, no reload, etc. so they can ditch the weapon if necessary. Sometimes you get off-body carries, or a girlfriend carrying, or guns secreted in vehicles in natural voids (think detached door trim panels). I even saw one in a steering wheel airbag compartment that had the airbag removed.

LEO's like anybody else, however, go by what they know, their own experiences, and what they hear about. The only time many LEO's carry multiple weapons and associated gear is when they are going out to do something, such as a search warrant or an arrest. They "gear up" or "get dressed" for the business they are going to go do. When they aren't doing warrants and are engaged in normal investigative duties (plainclothes), for example, most LEO's carry A GUN, a single pair of cuffs, and maybe a spare mag. If we encounter some guy, CCW or not, who looks like he is "geared up," the natural reaction is therefore to assume he is geared up for some purpose, such as mayhem of one sort or another. Now, it COULD be that the guy you stop with a bunch of guns and gear is just some paranoid type with hero fantasies about being Bruce Willis in Die Hard or something, and carries all that gear every day, all the time with no nefarious purpose in mind, but what REASONABLE MAN would do that? Every LEO who has carried a gun off duty all the time for a period of years knows what a pain it can be to carry a gun sometimes, and very few LEO's ever run across a situation off duty where they need a gun, so once again, the logical question to ask is: why would any REASONABLE person magnify that weight and discomfort by a factor of three or four unless he was up to something?

There is always the possibility that such a guy is just enthusiastic about his right to carry, but they have a saying that's real popular in law enforcement:
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

I'm not looking to offend here, and of course it's up to you how you want to do CCW, but if you ever have to deal with the local gendarmes, you don't want to look like a duck.
 
Wierd but my bug is now my primary.

I used to carry a 6 shot Model 19 SW .357 as primary.

I decided to go with a little lighter and got a 5 shot Ruger SP101 .357.

Next, I got a Kel-Tec .380 as a BUG.

After leaving the SP101 in the glove compartment many times (it got cumbersome) and carrying the .380, I decided to carry the .380 and use the Ruger as a BUG :)

Now, unless I sense danger, I carry the .380 100% of the time. I do pull the Ruger out of the glove compartment from time to time when I do not like the looks of something.
 
I know this Gorgeous blonde cop chick, she has her primary gun on her hip at 3 o'clock, another gun at her 9 o'clock, and one gun on her right upper leg, and another gun on her left upper leg. AND a taser gun, at 11 o'clock!! She was LOADED! wearing the issued dark blue uniform, with black accents for her gear. And all her guns were stainless slides at least.

I havn't seen her for a bit, but the night I met her and talked to her, was for a quick second when they were on a man hunt for a suspect in the area who broke into the qwest building down the street to steal some copper!
 
I carry a G27 and a KT P32 as a BUG. I must be a lucky guy; as someone said you have a 1 in 27,000 chance of being the victim of a violent crime. I was robbed at gunpoint in NYC 3 times in a 5 year period. One happened in a bad area after my car broke down and the other two were in so called good areas. At the time of the last one it was a guy that robbed 10 people that day and was caught after he took me off. I lived there 33 years due to job and I now live in FL. I fly too but I do not comfort myself with the "you are safer flying than in your car" statistic. I doubt that a 36000 foot fall will precede any car crash I may (God forbid) be in. Mr. Murphy is alive and well. OK I am off to buy a lottery ticket.:D
 
OW! :D
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Thats what I'm saying!

..if only I could start the academy sooner to work with her! I know she'd protect me! plus she's really sweet..be interseting to see how she is when knocking a suspect down onto the ground..ahhh:rolleyes:
 
ghalleen said:

Additionally, I've sat on a jury and seen what can happen there.

I don't think that you're looking for trouble when you carry two guns. Maybe paranoid; maybe prepared; maybe you just like carrying extra firepower. I'm saying that when you carry extra gun(s), knives, flashlights, lots of ammo, and so forth, that if you end up in front of a jury, many in the jury box will automatically assume you're a crazy gun nut who was looking for an excuse to shoot someone. The other attorney (defense or prosecutor, depending on what goes down) is going to try to convince the good libs who sit in the jury that whatever happened wouldn't have happened if a normal person had been involved instead of a trigger-happy walking arsenal.
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Though gnashing my teeth, I am forced to admit that your low expectations are justified, even in my own experience. I, too, have sat on a jury; 80% of the jurors did not participate at all in the deliberations and appeared interested only in getting out of there as soon as possible. They appeared to have no interest at all in the proceedings or any feeling of responsibility to carefully examine the facts we were given to ascertain guilt or not. Gave me the cold chills to see it first-hand. I think I'd probably look for a tall building before I'd pin my hopes of freedom on the ability/willingness of a handful of your "average" citizens to think clearly and with discipline about the facts of my case.

JollyRoger said:

They "gear up" or "get dressed" for the business they are going to go do. When they aren't doing warrants and are engaged in normal investigative duties (plainclothes), for example, most LEO's carry A GUN, a single pair of cuffs, and maybe a spare mag. If we encounter some guy, CCW or not, who looks like he is "geared up," the natural reaction is therefore to assume he is geared up for some purpose, such as mayhem of one sort or another.
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Put this way, your position makes a lot of sense. I do see where you are coming from.
 
I’ve seen it stated multiple times on this thread about the odds of being in a situation where the need for a gun are so slim as to make it pretty much unnecessary. So… what? Am I just lucky or what? I’m sorry. I’m at a complete loss as to how to relate to that.


There have been three times in my life when my life has been impacted by armed assailants. The first time I was living with my mother and step dad, I was about 17. Someone broke into the house while my mother was home, in fact he snuck in under the garage door when she pulled in and then forced his way into the house when she unlocked the door into the house. He remained in the house for several hours holding my mother at gun point. It was a very, very bad ordeal. It was many years before my mother was able to get past that.

The second time I was visiting my aunt in Oklahoma City. She lived across a vacant lot from a convenience store. We’re talking a clear view of about 80 ft. My cousin who was about 16 had gone to get some milk comes rushing in and informs us that the store had just been robbed while he was there.

The third time me and my wife were on our way home from visiting friends. It was about 11:00pm and we stopped at the “Stop-n-Go” at the entrance of our friend’s neighborhood to get a couple of things. I was at the counter paying for my stuff when this guy who was already in the store comes up to the counter beside me and this 38 appears beside me and the guy tells the attendant to give him all the money. The gun is shaking like a leaf in a hurricane and I’m thinking “this fool is going to shoot someone accidentally and then think he has to shoot any witnesses. Thankfully this was before the days when shooting everybody is just standard procedure, in other words, these days.

I’m not trying to say “If I’d only had a gun” clearly in two of these situations I wasn’t in direct contact with the events as they unfolded so having a gun would have had no impact on the situation and the second situation… well, who knows, either way it could have gone really bad. No the point I’m making is that it seems to me that violence seems to be pretty close to hand and far too common.

Oh and I forgot, I was robbed once in San Francisco where the guy just pulled up his shirt tail so I could see the pistol tucked into his pants. This was just on the street.

And I gotta tell ya, from where I’m standing the “odds” don’t look to be getting better.


The bottom line is that my real life, I was there, personal experience tells me that a gun, even two or three guns is probably a pretty good idea. Certainly not imprudent or out of line or unreasonable.
 
First of all, I'll say that you've been extremely unlucky. My house was burgled once while I was gone. That's the extent of my unluckiness.

In the examples you listed, do you think multiple guns would have helped you? In the examples you listed, do you think a single gun would've helped?

In two of your examples, you weren't involved, and were related to someone who was involved. In two, you were involved in a confrontation.

When you were at the convenience store and it was being robbed, would you have drawn your gun if you'd had it? Ditto for when you were robbed on the street? How do you think the confrontation would've changed if you had? Would you have been a hero and stopped the robberies by drawing your weapon? Or would you have shot the BG? Would he have shot you?

There's no right answer. I understand that. There's no way of knowing if the confrontations would have been better or worse if you'd been armed.

I've had what-if discussions with several people regarding very similar theoretical scenarios. When is it best to draw? Do you draw your weapon when a store is being robbed? Or, do you keep quiet, wait for it to end (hoping the clerk doesn't get shot), ready to draw if all hell breaks loose, while recording all details firmly in your mind? There's probably no way to know for sure what you'll do until you're faced with the reality of it, and hope you make the right choice at the time. You've got to use your instincts and decide, in a split second, whether or not the BG is going to shoot someone.

Is the likelihood of your experiencing one of these confrontations high enough to warrant carrying additional guns and ammo (with the inconvenience and discomfort it brings)? If you do end up needing to draw on a BG, what's the chance that you'll either lose/break your primary (or run out of ammo) and need to draw a different weapon?

For me, the chances are low, and my willingness to put up with the extra weight/inconvenience/bulk don't warrant an additional handgun. Most cops don't carry backups, either, and they are much more likely to need their handgun than I ever will.
 
How many Emergency Brakes do you have on your car?

You're much, much more likely to need 2 of those than 2 guns in one confrontation. (And as we know, we rarely hear of the need of one such brake to prevent a serious accident, let alone two.)
 
The bottom line is we all need to carry what we each feel comfortable with. There are many variables that are unique to each person. It isn't up to me to convince you that you need to carry a BUG and X amount of spare ammo, so don't try and convince me that I am perfectly safe with a single gun and no reloads!!
 
You're much, much more likely to need 2 of those than 2 guns in one confrontation. (And as we know, we rarely hear of the need of one such brake to prevent a serious accident, let alone two.)
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Right, so chances are, the average guy will never need a gun for self defense. Of those cases where a gun is needed, the vast majority of the confrontations will end without a round being fired...so you don't even need to carry ammo. Of those times when you do need to discharge a firearm, you are going to miss 70-80% of the time (based on police shootings). Of the times your bullets do strike the bad guy, the wounds will be non-lethal anyway.

So the bottom line would be that a NAA Mini revolver in 17 HMR is going to be more than enough gun or generate the same basic results that you would get with a bigger, heavier gun firing defensive ammo, so why even bother putting out the effort to carry something that is going to inconvenience you that much when a cap gun will do?:barf::barf::barf:

My personal belief is that one should carry the most powerful and largest caliber in a reliable platform that they can conceal and can shoot well, spare ammo, and that if a BUG can be carried, that is an excellent thing to do. I have little concern for what happens 99.99999% of the time because during that time, nothing bad is happening. My concern is for that very short period of time when things go bad.

Put another way, it isn't how often you will need a gun, spare ammo, or BUG that should determine one's carry parameters, but the significance of the result of needing one and not having it.

While I am not an FBI agent, all of the FBI agents in the Miami FBI shootout who had BUGs did fire them.
 
Double Naught Spy

While I am not an FBI agent, all of the FBI agents in the Miami FBI shootout who had BUGs did fire them.
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I would have to say that that is the most telling comment I have read on this entire thread.

I don't keep a gun for the times I won't need it. I don't keep insurance for the times I don't need it.
 
I don't think FBI really encounter to violent crime resisting situations.
Mostly local authority apprehend the scum bags and put them in custody if FBI is after, they hand them to FBI.

I respect each opinions because that is your opinion and that is your life.
I am a LEO. and I carry backup weapon especially now. More malfunctions on the guns are caused by user error than weapon error. (IN MY OWN AND DEPARTMENT RANGE TRAINING EXPERIENCE: double feed, stove pipes etc due to weak grip and stuff).
I kept reading these thread but I had to say something when someone mentioned FBI. I respect FBI but they just do not encounter too many violent crimes and high threat situation like PDs and SOs do.
 
You guys have changed my mind

BUGs.jpg


Sorry. I had to get in a little comic relief.
I'm not going to bash anyone for carrying a BUG... it's just not for me. You have to draw the line somewhere. I'll take my chances with one gun, one reload, a good pocket knife and situational awareness. If I were LEO or military going to hit a target, it would be different.
 
I've only carried a BUG once.

I was backpacking in the woods, and I was particularly concerned over local drug runners and pot growers.

I had a 44mag on my hip for 4-legged threats and more easily resolved 2-legged situations, and my BUG was a Glock21 packed away in my backpack, with 2 spare magazines. Not very accessible, but my hope was that the revolver would give me time to obtain cover and dig out the automatic.

I've noticed while backpacking that automatics on the hip really set people off and put them on the defensive; they become suspicious of you for it. But revolvers on the hip are very natural and aren't disconcerting at all to most hikers you meet.
 
Paranoia is an irrational response to a perceived threat. For the average person, carrying multiple weapons is overkill, and the need, not supported by the odds of an encounter. If, you end up in court, you will look like a fanatic, commando type that's looking for a fight.
 
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