Backup for Bear
- Thread starter 300magman
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i would go with a 12 ga. loaded with defense loads. they have 00 buck and one giant ball. heres a pic.http://www.jgsales.com/popup_image.php/pID/1638?osCsid=c029100836dcc30b5087025eec6c2780
I once knew a man who'd by chance come upon and killed a black bear while he was hunting for deer. He told me that in all his years of hunting he'd never seen a black bear in the woods up that close before. I'm not sure what the exact distance was that he referred to as "up close" but I took it to mean about 10 yards.The most interesting thing to me about his story though was that he said he'd taken "careful aim" with his first shot, but "missed". By then he was in full panic mode of course, and unloaded his rifle at the hapless bear, and one shot actually hit the bear and killed him.
So while I know that either rifled slugs (for smoothbores) or saboted slugs (for rifled shotgun barrels) are accurate enough kill a bear at that range and would be devastatingly powerful at that range too (if you connected) you've still got to actually hit the bear. That's why I'd opt for buckshot, which will also kill the bear, but doesn't require quite as much precision to do it.
So while I know that either rifled slugs (for smoothbores) or saboted slugs (for rifled shotgun barrels) are accurate enough kill a bear at that range and would be devastatingly powerful at that range too (if you connected) you've still got to actually hit the bear. That's why I'd opt for buckshot, which will also kill the bear, but doesn't require quite as much precision to do it.
wyobohunter
New member
:barf: ever shoot one of these with 3" magnums? I have and I'll just say, good luck.
I'd go Brenneke 3" black magic magnum or Dixie slugs. Either foster type (rifled) will do fine in a smoothbore.
oneounceload
Moderator
Personally, I wouldn't shoot them with standard 2-3/4....but to each his own
Taken a few. They die easily. Never knew I needed a backup. Carried slugs when bird hunting in bear country ... actually took a deer once when pheasant hunting in B.C. ... so another reason for slugs. Bird shot of any size will just **** [ok! tick] a bear off.
As an old timer told me ... "You will never lose a gut shot bear!"
Think about it.
When you skin one out see if it reminds you of your uncle Wally!!?? Very human like.
As an old timer told me ... "You will never lose a gut shot bear!"
Think about it.
When you skin one out see if it reminds you of your uncle Wally!!?? Very human like.
alaskaman94
New member
y the heck do you need back up on a blacky at 40 yards with a 45-70. iv killed and seen lots of bears killed with muchmuch less gun. i shoot um with a 40# bow and the farthest ones ever went was 20 yards. when with my 45-70 the farthest was about 3 foot- strait down. and im talkin 6.5 foot ak bears. just relax and make a good shot in the first place. and to anser your Q. i alternate slugs and OO buck in my pistolgrip 12. idk y thats just how my dad did it and taught me 2. seems 2 work ok
cant help but brag a lil...im the kid in the 1st 2 and takin the 3rd pic of our camp after 3 nites of hunting this spring
cant help but brag a lil...im the kid in the 1st 2 and takin the 3rd pic of our camp after 3 nites of hunting this spring
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therealtwitch
New member
if I had to use a shotgun against a bear I would one of the following 2 with my prefrance being the latter.
Brenekke black magic (3" 1500fps of mollywopp)
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/37896-5.html
remingtion accu tip bonded sabot slug (i would use the 3" 385gr. 1900fps variety myself)
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/shotshell/slugs/accuTip_bonded_sabot_slug.asp
Brenekke black magic (3" 1500fps of mollywopp)
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/37896-5.html
remingtion accu tip bonded sabot slug (i would use the 3" 385gr. 1900fps variety myself)
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/shotshell/slugs/accuTip_bonded_sabot_slug.asp
HorseSoldier
New member
+1 on Brenekke slugs.
+0 on buckshot. For terminal defense from a wounded bear, you're not going to get much spread from a shotgun with buckshot (my 870 duty gun does 5" at 10 yards with 00 buck) to compensate for aiming errors, and you're giving up a whole lot of penetration and solid thump. Blacks may be more forgiving than browns, being smaller and all, but up here in AK slugs are pretty much the industry standard for bear defense in a shotgun.
+0 on buckshot. For terminal defense from a wounded bear, you're not going to get much spread from a shotgun with buckshot (my 870 duty gun does 5" at 10 yards with 00 buck) to compensate for aiming errors, and you're giving up a whole lot of penetration and solid thump. Blacks may be more forgiving than browns, being smaller and all, but up here in AK slugs are pretty much the industry standard for bear defense in a shotgun.
Don't knock BIG Buckshot!
If you have not tried BIG Buckshot like the Dixie Tri-Ball 3" don't make the mistake of comparing it to the little stuff like 000B (.350 / 65 grains) or 00B (.325 / 52 grains). When you turn loose three .60 caliber hard cast 315 grain buckshot its a different ballgame! Tri-Ball also shoots to point of aim at 40 yards from most vent rib 870 shotguns.
If you have not tried BIG Buckshot like the Dixie Tri-Ball 3" don't make the mistake of comparing it to the little stuff like 000B (.350 / 65 grains) or 00B (.325 / 52 grains). When you turn loose three .60 caliber hard cast 315 grain buckshot its a different ballgame! Tri-Ball also shoots to point of aim at 40 yards from most vent rib 870 shotguns.
Edward429451
Moderator
Somebody forgot to tell me that. Foster slugs from my 18" barrel with bead sight are usable out to 50 or 60 yards even in my non champion hands.
The secret is to shoulder the SG like a (gasp) rifle and then it will work. Heck, I was hittin a 12 X 24 pc of sheet metal at 100 yds with the same setup after I walked em in and adjusted for it. But in this case the target will be coming closer so should be easier to hit (even with the 45/70)
A 45-70 has more than enough power to drop a bear, even if your useing black powder, remember the 45-70-405 was a buffallo killer in the turn of the century, it still is in the year 2009. What type action are you useing to hunt bear? If its a lever gun then a quick follow up shot is no problem.
As for a back up 12 gauge......SLUGS!!!! and use a shot gun that has sights, I dont mean a brass bead either, I mean rifle sights or ghost ring sights. Williams makes some really nice Fire Sights that will really grab your eye fast in the woods in low light conditions. I'd stay away from Buck shot....its a BEAR, not a buck. I never heard of any dangerious game guides ever useing buck shot......Its always been a BIG BORE GUN. Even Howdah Pistols used a single large projectile to kill a tiger or lion if it tried to climb the back of an elephant and get into the Howdah Basket.......Hence the name Howdah Pistol.
Bird shot.........again its a BEAR, not a bird.
Good luck on your hunt.
Dont worry about recoil.....you aint gonna notice it if a bear is charge'n you, recoil will be the last thing on your mind.
As for a back up 12 gauge......SLUGS!!!! and use a shot gun that has sights, I dont mean a brass bead either, I mean rifle sights or ghost ring sights. Williams makes some really nice Fire Sights that will really grab your eye fast in the woods in low light conditions. I'd stay away from Buck shot....its a BEAR, not a buck. I never heard of any dangerious game guides ever useing buck shot......Its always been a BIG BORE GUN. Even Howdah Pistols used a single large projectile to kill a tiger or lion if it tried to climb the back of an elephant and get into the Howdah Basket.......Hence the name Howdah Pistol.
Bird shot.........again its a BEAR, not a bird.
Good luck on your hunt.
Dont worry about recoil.....you aint gonna notice it if a bear is charge'n you, recoil will be the last thing on your mind.
Quote 300Magman:
"I wonder would 3.5" buckshot loads firing more lead but at slower velocity have a longer "more push like" recoil than the 3" buckshot with significantly less lead going several hundred fps faster."
I've tried several varieties of both 3" and 3.5" 00 buck loads out of curiosity/"fun", and I'll tell you the 3.5s are not in any way softer shooting. They pound you hard. The 3" mags are bad, the 3.5s are worse. I've by no means tried all that's out there, but that's been my experience. However, like rjsixgun said, I'm not sure you'd notice the recoil much if you had a bear charging you or your buddy.
"I wonder would 3.5" buckshot loads firing more lead but at slower velocity have a longer "more push like" recoil than the 3" buckshot with significantly less lead going several hundred fps faster."
I've tried several varieties of both 3" and 3.5" 00 buck loads out of curiosity/"fun", and I'll tell you the 3.5s are not in any way softer shooting. They pound you hard. The 3" mags are bad, the 3.5s are worse. I've by no means tried all that's out there, but that's been my experience. However, like rjsixgun said, I'm not sure you'd notice the recoil much if you had a bear charging you or your buddy.
NoSecondBest
New member
You guys only need one gun...and let your buddy use it
Give your buddy the gun and you carry a good hard stick. If he hits one and it comes at you don't worry about the bear. Just hit your buddy real hard on the knee cap with the stick and run like hel*. The bear will get your buddy when he can't run because of the bad knee and you'll be OK.
Give your buddy the gun and you carry a good hard stick. If he hits one and it comes at you don't worry about the bear. Just hit your buddy real hard on the knee cap with the stick and run like hel*. The bear will get your buddy when he can't run because of the bad knee and you'll be OK.
I understand the point that many of you have made about the primary gun being more than enough, but if there are two of them out on the hunt, I see no reason that the 2nd guy should not have an adequate gun and ammo that will take the bear out also. Why not?
If a bear is charging you, you'll be glad that you are both able to take shots to increase your chances, especially under stress.
If a bear is charging you, you'll be glad that you are both able to take shots to increase your chances, especially under stress.
BlackFeather
New member
Last spring I brought my 30-30 and my friend had my shotgun loaded with 3" Winchester slugs as a back up. I have shot an 870 with just the front bead and I prefer my ghost ring sight over it.
Carne Frio
New member
Brennekes are the way to go. Even Walmart and grocery stores sell them here.