I think we are taking the wrong tack here. Instead of making the issue "Arm the teachers" we should make it about removing the "Gun free zones" in schools. Therefore teachers, visiting parents, the janitor or any adult with a CCW permit would be allowed to carry on school property at their own discretion. No way the BGs could possibly know who or how many people in the school are armed. That would work.
Ayoob on "Today", armed teachers
- Thread starter Ankeny
- Start date
Remember when wackos used to, "go postal"? Hmm, schools, where guns are banned, and post offices, where guns are banned. I'm beginning to detect a pattern here.
The first thing my wife said about Littleton, and she is a public school teacher, was, "too bad no teachers were armed." Last year some numbnut tried shooting up a school in Mississippi or Abalama and the vice-principle ran out to his car, retrieved his handgun, and stopped the little Payday bar pronto.
Kodiac, re home schooling, there are some excellent programs out there that will even supply computers for homeschoolers. Look online; you'll find lots of info. A friend of ours is homeschooling and got all the materials including comp thru IDEA, an Alaska homeschool program.
CCW permits? I don't need no steenking permit!
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Voting libertarian means never having to say you're sorry.
The first thing my wife said about Littleton, and she is a public school teacher, was, "too bad no teachers were armed." Last year some numbnut tried shooting up a school in Mississippi or Abalama and the vice-principle ran out to his car, retrieved his handgun, and stopped the little Payday bar pronto.
Kodiac, re home schooling, there are some excellent programs out there that will even supply computers for homeschoolers. Look online; you'll find lots of info. A friend of ours is homeschooling and got all the materials including comp thru IDEA, an Alaska homeschool program.
CCW permits? I don't need no steenking permit!
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Voting libertarian means never having to say you're sorry.
I am a teacher, 8th grade to be specific. I have a CCW and carry to protect my wife and kids. I have reservations about having teachers carry at school. I know my abilities and shortcomings but I would worry about others I work with. Most wouldn't want to carry anyway.
I do not want to be a security guard. We have a school resource officer (police officer) that seems to be a deterent to violence at school. I feel schools should hire trained professionals if necessary and not place that responsibility upon teachers.
Or even better--enforce our existing laws with real prison terms. Raise our children to know the difference between right and wrong. Teach our children to have respect for life. Talk to them and see how they're doing. Ask them what they need...
Maybe I'm leaning away from the thread but just my two pennies from someone who's there everyday.
I do not want to be a security guard. We have a school resource officer (police officer) that seems to be a deterent to violence at school. I feel schools should hire trained professionals if necessary and not place that responsibility upon teachers.
Or even better--enforce our existing laws with real prison terms. Raise our children to know the difference between right and wrong. Teach our children to have respect for life. Talk to them and see how they're doing. Ask them what they need...
Maybe I'm leaning away from the thread but just my two pennies from someone who's there everyday.
As a public high school teacher, I thought I'd jump on in. When I read about Frontsight offering free firearms training to teachers I got all exited. For about five seconds. The truth is, school leadership is constantly put under intense scrutiny whenever anything goes wrong. This has turned most school administrators reactive instead of proactive. Asking one of these "wrong-decision shy" administrators to make this kind of decision is asking a lot. I half considered taking the Front Site article down to my superintendant and make a play for it, but I didn't. Why? Because this is a pretty good idea, and I'd hate to go off half-cocked and ruin it. I don't think it is an unworkable idea. I just don't think that we are going to do it YET. Hey, for those of us that are already CCW holders, this isn't that bit of a jump. It could be done, and done easily if the administrators and police wanted to: have the local police force deputize teachers. This would get around the current laws without having to go through the state legislature.
My prediction: The first school system to allow teachers to carry concealed will do it quietly, and it will be a small town where everyone knows everyone. And it has prob already happened!
PS To Kodiac - There are some very good public schools out there! And not everything your kid will learn is academic: socializing with large groups of kids and adults, working within a system, etc.
My prediction: The first school system to allow teachers to carry concealed will do it quietly, and it will be a small town where everyone knows everyone. And it has prob already happened!
PS To Kodiac - There are some very good public schools out there! And not everything your kid will learn is academic: socializing with large groups of kids and adults, working within a system, etc.
removing the silly "no guns" rule would be a start, but giving students proper discioline and positive role models would be better. not saying that there are no positive role models now, just that fear of litigation makes it harder . you know, the nail that sticks up gets hammered.
us baby boomers never got away with thungs like kids do today, but we're the ones letting these kids get away with it, maybe because we wanted to make things easier for our kids , but screwed up by lleaving out important lessons like discipline, respect, tolerance,etc.
us baby boomers never got away with thungs like kids do today, but we're the ones letting these kids get away with it, maybe because we wanted to make things easier for our kids , but screwed up by lleaving out important lessons like discipline, respect, tolerance,etc.
It seems to me everyone here is missing a couple of relevant points, maybe just because we all consider them so obvious.
First, I hope we all realize that people do not dedicate their lives to the education of our children for the money. The likelihood of an armed teacher endangering the children in his/her care is so remote to me that I don't even consider it. IOW, the message we send to our children would be that your teacher cares about you so much that he/she is willing and able to put his/her life on the line to protect you from harm, if necessary.
Second, like the vice principal already mentioned who ran to his car for his firearm, when you need to act it is real obvious. Would the librarian at Littleton have had a problem with deciding what to do if armed? I see little reason to fear mistakes by armed teachers. I am, OTOH, rather surprised at the dissention on the issue in this forum, although I certainly respect opposing opinions expressed. I just wouldn't have expected so many.
Larry P.
First, I hope we all realize that people do not dedicate their lives to the education of our children for the money. The likelihood of an armed teacher endangering the children in his/her care is so remote to me that I don't even consider it. IOW, the message we send to our children would be that your teacher cares about you so much that he/she is willing and able to put his/her life on the line to protect you from harm, if necessary.
Second, like the vice principal already mentioned who ran to his car for his firearm, when you need to act it is real obvious. Would the librarian at Littleton have had a problem with deciding what to do if armed? I see little reason to fear mistakes by armed teachers. I am, OTOH, rather surprised at the dissention on the issue in this forum, although I certainly respect opposing opinions expressed. I just wouldn't have expected so many.
Larry P.
Since the Federal Goverment decided that schools have to be gun-free zones to prevent violence, violence has increased. Post offices are gun-free zones and violence increased. We have "drug-free" zones where open trading of drugs takes place. Do we see a trend here. The "---free" zones don't dirty word work. When i was in school, I admit is was a l-o-o-n-g time back, there were no school shootings and there were all types of firearms in or around school property. Kids made rifle stocks in wood shop, they rebuilt rifles in metal shop, rifles and shotguns were stored in cars if they (students or teachers) were hunting before or after school. There were even, gasp, GUN SHOWS on school property. There were even a couple of teachers that were reserve police officers and I know they had their service revolvers with them. How many school shootings were there? Not a single one. No accidental discharges of friearms, no intentional discharges of firearms, no discharges of firearms of any type. Who was safer, the kids in Colorado in their gun-free zone school or me in the school with enough guns to hold off all the BATF?
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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
jim, no question that the teachers should be allowed to carry. just saying that if we weren't so concerned over the rules, maybe we could actually play the game. i agree 110% with your viewpoint. it's what i was saying about positive role models. anybody besides me remember when high schools had shooting teams? cmore
One advantage of home schooling...
The teachers are ARMED.
Long Hair, money can be an issue... And as mentioned, there are programs that help out. If you get it.
Either way - it is an investment in your children, and it will pay off in the end. My son is not yet 6, and he can read and write. He knows science, and he is getting basic math down pretty good.
His mother teaches english and grammer - if you can't tell.
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RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The teachers are ARMED.
Long Hair, money can be an issue... And as mentioned, there are programs that help out. If you get it.
Either way - it is an investment in your children, and it will pay off in the end. My son is not yet 6, and he can read and write. He knows science, and he is getting basic math down pretty good.
His mother teaches english and grammer - if you can't tell.
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RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
cmore.....
You bet I remember when school's had shooting teams...ours was sponsored by the rotc and the skills I learned and practiced was one of the best foundations I could have ever received............you know our high school had an armory for the rotc, we had the competition rifles and pistols in 22, and we had m14's in double wall racks, floor to ceiling along with an m60.....this was 1971 or 72,............When I was stationed in Homestead afb back in 75/76 the navy detachment I was with had national match 45's in the bottom of a file cabinet, they hadnt been used in years---when homestead closed down, I hope someone was able to salvage those old pistols....I know Id have liked to have had them....fubsy.
You bet I remember when school's had shooting teams...ours was sponsored by the rotc and the skills I learned and practiced was one of the best foundations I could have ever received............you know our high school had an armory for the rotc, we had the competition rifles and pistols in 22, and we had m14's in double wall racks, floor to ceiling along with an m60.....this was 1971 or 72,............When I was stationed in Homestead afb back in 75/76 the navy detachment I was with had national match 45's in the bottom of a file cabinet, they hadnt been used in years---when homestead closed down, I hope someone was able to salvage those old pistols....I know Id have liked to have had them....fubsy.
There are still high school shooting teams here in the Northern Virginia area. In fact one Arlington high school has a rifle range in the basement of the school. A few weeks ago the school board was going to remove the range because they "needed the space for storage". There was an outcry from students and parents and they suddenly found the storage area elsewhere. Thank God, some good sense still exists in some places.
Harry B,
The problem with school police officers is that everybody knows them. Even if they were to wear plain clothes instead of uniforms every kid in the school would know who he is. If a student goes wacko the poor school officer becomes the primary target since he is the only one who can resist effectivly. That's what happened in Littleton. The two bozos attacked when the officer was out of the building and when he responded to the gunfire the BGs were waiting to ambush him. That poor LEO is alive today simply due to poor marksmanship and dumb luck.
CCW works to prevent crime because nobody knows who might be carrying.
The problem with school police officers is that everybody knows them. Even if they were to wear plain clothes instead of uniforms every kid in the school would know who he is. If a student goes wacko the poor school officer becomes the primary target since he is the only one who can resist effectivly. That's what happened in Littleton. The two bozos attacked when the officer was out of the building and when he responded to the gunfire the BGs were waiting to ambush him. That poor LEO is alive today simply due to poor marksmanship and dumb luck.
CCW works to prevent crime because nobody knows who might be carrying.
Our local high school has had a rifle team for over 30 years. Many of the team members received schlorships to colleges for their marksmanship. Two of my neighbors kids shot on the Ohio State Rifle Team on scholorships. Last year the insurance company was reviewing the policy and when they found out about the rifle team they wanted to know a bunch of details. Like where are the rifles kept? (In the school) Where do they practice? (In the school basement) etc., etc. Well after they climbed down off of the ceiling they informed the administration that they would no longer insure the school system. Neither would any other company, as long as they had the rifle team. (It is also against state law to have a firearm within 50 feet of a school). They no longer have a rifle team at our high school. The rotten b%st#r%@!
Please excuse the temporary lose of temper.
Cat
Please excuse the temporary lose of temper.
Cat
Cat...
I suggest you gather up a bunch of like-minded people; find out the name of the insurance company; compile the awards the rifle team has won and other pertinent stuff (benefits to the school and "the children") and letter bomb every TV, Radio and newspaper outlet....expose these craven fools and demonstrate that they have no civic pride/connection to the community, and they only care about money and political gain. Ruin them
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
I suggest you gather up a bunch of like-minded people; find out the name of the insurance company; compile the awards the rifle team has won and other pertinent stuff (benefits to the school and "the children") and letter bomb every TV, Radio and newspaper outlet....expose these craven fools and demonstrate that they have no civic pride/connection to the community, and they only care about money and political gain. Ruin them
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
Byron Quick
Staff In Memoriam
Teachers should not be armed says some of you? Which part of "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" don't you understand? Just curious.
I detect the possibility of a delicious circular argument that is inherently true.
Teachers should not NEED to be armed. But the only way to ensure that they do not NEED to be armed is for them to BE armed and thereby deter the bozos from taking advantage of defenseless victims. Then, when there are no defenseless victims left, the teachers will not NEED to be armed.
So, Teachers should not NEED to be armed, and the only way to make sure they do not NEED to be armed is to make sure that enough of them ARE armed.
Can anyone clean this up and make it more snappy?
Teachers should not NEED to be armed. But the only way to ensure that they do not NEED to be armed is for them to BE armed and thereby deter the bozos from taking advantage of defenseless victims. Then, when there are no defenseless victims left, the teachers will not NEED to be armed.
So, Teachers should not NEED to be armed, and the only way to make sure they do not NEED to be armed is to make sure that enough of them ARE armed.
Can anyone clean this up and make it more snappy?