Ayoob on "Today", armed teachers

A

Ankeny

New member
This morning Massad Ayoob appeared on the Today Show. Ayoob is advocating the arming of teachers on a voluntary basis similar to the model used in Israel. Massad is in favor of qualified teachers carrying “discreetly concealed semi-automatic pistols.”

I noticed some of the TFL members spoke of arming teachers in various posts after the Littleton shooting. I refrained from entering the fray because quite frankly the notion of arming teachers seemed to me to be way over the top and just plumb stoopid. I am starting to rethink my position.

So, what do you guys think? Is Ayoob right or has he “wigged out” on this one?


[This message has been edited by Ankeny (edited May 25, 1999).]
 
Ankeny,

I cannot think of a more effective deterrent to more school shootings than allowing trained teachers to where CCW, such as yourself.

Put yourself in the same position as those teachers in Littleton: would you rather be screaming to 911 and your kids to "get under your desks" (as if that will do any good) or would you rather be able to defend yourself and your class before they kill and wound more innocent children?

Give me the second choice any day of the week. But the real point is that, if trained teachers were allowed to carry concealed, school shootings would become a thing of the past, almost instantly!

Regards,

Albin
 
Armed nuns, maybe?

I think allowing teachers to be armed would be a good start. How about allowing anyone (non-vilent felon, non-retard, non-nutbag, etc....) to be armed if he or she chooses, that would be nice.



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-Essayons
 
I saw that...never knew what Ayoob looked like.

He handled himself superbly....smiled alot, didn't come across as a scary sort, relaxed body language. The opponent was uptight and frankly offered nothing but emotions, tho to his credit, no histrionics.
The guy simply would not even address the concept...past "what kind of message will we send our children?"

Ayoob says Israel, the guy says England, etc.
At one point he tried to make Israel out to be non-relevent because those that may do stuff are terrorists not regular folks like here or England. As if it makes a difference to me that the person shooting up the place and trying to kill me is a terrorist or a nutbar ;).


I'm not against armed school people but it still doesn't address the core problem of what is screwing the kids up. As well, armed school employees will only be controversial if folks make it so. The anti-gunners will be those that make it a big deal.



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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
Arming the teachers unfortunately only treats the symptom, not the disease. And education is sick. My youngest went to a good, small HS in Iowa for her first two years, and a Catholic prep school in Indiana for her last two. Needless to say she was not happy about moving and leaving all her friends behind, but now, after completing her first year of college, concedes the Catholic school was better preparation: they wore uniforms and toed the line. Which is not to say the CHS kids didn't drink and do stuff they shouldn't...but they got punished for their misdeeds, promptly. And the school didn't worry about lawyers and parents raising a litigious fuss.
 
Israel stopped the terrorist activity, which started out as kidnapping school children and holding them hostage. They accomplished this by arming the teachers and the citizens.

Oh, by the way...... it worked.

I don't agree with arming every teacher, but it would definately make some wigged out scumbag think twice before planning a school shooting!

DblTap

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God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the strength to change the things I can, and the weaponry to make the difference!

[This message has been edited by DblTap (edited May 25, 1999).]
 
I am home schooling my oldest son - but we are considering sending him to a public school.

Would I rather send my son to a class room where the teach would most likely PANIC and scream - Or to a class room where the teacher cares enough to DEFEND his students and my child?

Hmmm... Let me think. Call 911 and hide, or make a stand, and call 911.

There is no choice. Isreal is a country that takes security and defense VERY seriously. They are the PERFECT model for HOW TO DO IT RIGHT.

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RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
The armed teacher thing is out.NEA would not agree. What about armed parents? I see a lot of problems but its better than armed teachers or armed students.Can you visualize armed teachers AND armed students?

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
Kodiac,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Hmmm... Let me think. Call 911 and hide, or make a stand, and call 911.[/quote]

Shouldn't that be "make a stand and call 1911". grin

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Bubba
IDPA# A04739

[This message has been edited by Bubba (edited May 25, 1999).]
 
It amazes me that people's kneejerk reaction to that suggestion is: "What? No, way. That's too extreme. We don't want a society like that."

Folks, we ARE IN a society like that. Look, it would be (and WILL be someday) really nice to change the American culture to try to prevent such future episodes of violence from the causation side, and we should definitely continue down this path of improving values.

BUT -- IN THE MEANTIME -- why on earth would we even consider a route which does NOT proactively stop the violence from the defense side, by something that has been proven beyond all doubt to work (for the most part); to wit: arming the adults in school as Israel has done. This is what is known in technical parlance as a "no-brainer".

BTW, I heard that Jesse The Mind (anyone catch the TV movie?) initially suggested that armed CCW holders in the school would have ended Littleton quickly, but now has said he regrets having ever mixed the two subjects. Is this true? And if so, why does he regret it? Only because the media flamed him, or because he has truly changed his position?

[This message has been edited by Exiled And Addicted (edited May 25, 1999).]
 
I find the idea of armed Penguins strangely appealing

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
I would have loved to have seen Ayoob on TV but I stopped watching the Today show a while ago. I just couldn't take anymore of their blatant anti-gun bias.
I'm sure that Ayoob was professionally eloquent in explaining his position and as long as he didn't suffer from any creative editing at NBC he may have enlightened a few folks.
I have to admit that the first time someone suggested allowing armed teachers in schools a couple of years ago, I thought the idea was insane. I had this vision of Mrs. James, my 6th grade teacher, standing at the front of the class with a 1911 on her hip. Gave me the shudders.
I still have some reservations, but I have come to believe that these cowardly wackos that commit these crimes are only encouraged by the fact that they will face no lethal opposition to their plans.
If one or two of these creeps got dropped in their tracks right at the onset of their little shooting spree we would probably never see another school get shot up again.
 
DC, nuns are deadly enough with rulers. Don't ask me how I know this. ;) I can't imagine them with a HK, Glock, or a 1911-type. Heck, you can hide a shorty AR or 12 ga. under the robes.

As for Israel, I agree with the above. Responsible parents or teachers that wish to obtain their CCW (and most likely subsequent training) should be allowed to carry. Keep in mind (IIRC), a field trip for Israeli children went awry when they had to pass into Jordan, and Jordanian authorities requested that they disarm at the border. They were later fired upon by an extremist and were unable to protect themselves. It's my understanding that Israeli teachers and parents now refuse to disarm, and/or plan the security of future field trips accordingly.

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Don LeHue

The pen is mightier than the sword...outside of arms reach. Modify radius accordingly for rifle.
 
Kodiak, it ain't my business, and as i don't have any kids i may not have a right to say this, but from what i've seen comming out of public schools, i think you'd be better off continuing home schoolin'. like i said, it really ain't my business, and i'm sure you have reasons. just don't want you to think i'm buttin'in on raising your young'uns.

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fiat justitia
 
Your probably right - but you see schools get grants and gift moneys that pay for a lot of things home schoolers dont get, unless mom and dad payfor them out of the pocket - like everything else. And the time it takes is an issue. Home schooling requires a HUGE investment of time and dedication. My boys are #1 to me - so the time factor is no problem - but money is a factor. It is cheaper.
And the school is only one block away...
All things considered. I think some public schools are great.

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RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
The very fact that guns are forbidden in schools is what makes them so attractice to the nutbars. I find it strange that some of the places where you might need a gun the most,state and federal laws prevent you from carrying,even with a CCW.

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Pennsylvania has traditionally been a good state for gun owners. But read this...

Gun Owners of America E-Mail/FAX Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org

Pennsylvania Legislative Alert 5/25/99

Attention Concealed Carry Holders: Your rights are in DANGER.

HB 218, which has been sitting in the Appropriations Committee, is
an anti-gun, anti-rights bill designed to make law-abiding citizens
run afoul of the law.

HB 218 would make it a crime for a parent to possess a firearm while
dropping their kids off at school!

Teachers in Pennsylvania who hold valid permits would not be allowed
to carry either -- leaving school children completely defenseless in
the face of threats such as those so recently in the news.

WE MUST STOP THIS "NO PROTECTION FOR CHILDREN" LEGISLATION!
 
as they say "Teachers is our parents away from home." but at home our parents choose to have guns in our home to protect their children from armed intruders,etc...
as responsible,armed,teachers, it is their duty to protect their "kids" from harm,etc...
get my idea?
 
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